EFI Throttle Bodies

[rallyvan]

I have been thinking about converting my van to one of the EFI style throttle bodies/injection style set ups such as a MSD Atomic or Holley Sniper set up in the effort to get some better fuel/ increased range out of the van as I am participating in round Australia touring event next year. Has anyone on here used one of the MSD or Holley set ups? Where they happy with the system? I am dead keen that when the bonnet is lifted to have the standard air cleaner there!

[axistr]

Hi rallyvan, I decided to put EFI on one of my Toranas a couple of years ago. After lots of reading, asking questions and research I eventually went with the Holley system. Not sure what engine you are running or if its stock or not, but I went for EFI for three reasons.

1) Better cold starts. Engine used to foul plugs if I didn't get it right.
2) Ease of driving at low engine speeds. ( my wife can drive it now) 513hp 383 Chev
3) Complete control over ignition timing and better fuel tuning.


I went for the Holley HP EFI system. which can control throttle body injection, multipoint, sequential, boost, water injection, nitrous or just about any combination you can think of. You can use the system to control throttle body injection and keep it simple, or you can with the click of a tab in the software control cooling fans, A/C cut out, add a knock sensor, RPM spark or fuel cut, timing control and the list goes on. The Holly Terminator system uses the same software as I am using but uses the 4160 style carby look alike. I reckon the Snipper system looks shocking and doesn't look like a conventional carby but is a fair bit cheaper if that's what you want.

The system was very easy to install and is self tuning. I have done over 4,000 km without any problems. I can now lean in through the window, turn the key and it starts first pop every time and idles very well for a performance engine and never stalls. The availability of a knock sensor is great for when I haven't used the car for a few months and the fuel isn't fresh anymore which can very quickly lead to pinging or worse detonation. I have played around a bit with fuel and timing to see if there was any further gains, but in reality the default standard self tuning was almost perfect. I was never warried about fuel economy as performance was my kick but yes I defently have better fuel consumption and a tonne more driveability in every driving situation. And one last thing, I connect my note book up to the Holly computer and through the software can monitor all the engine parameters in real time and can use the datalogger for when I get home and check every parameter and every stab of the throttle, fuel pressure etc.


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[Taily]

Nice write up mate. As far as I am aware Holley also uses sensors that are easily available around the place. I have been looking at both Holley Sniper (good points about it) and the 600hp PA version FiTech. My only real concern about the FiTech is the aftermarket availablity of their sensors/spares.

I guess a couple of small mods with the snips and pliers you could mod the standard aircleaner base to fit too.

[axistr]

Yeah dead right Tally, My Holley system is a HP multipoint, I purchased the basic kit with the manifold and 1050cfm throttle body. You need to order the injectors to suit the maximum estimated fuel flow I use 8x36 pound Bosch injectors. You can purchase extras and add duel O2 sensors. I am only running 1 O2 sensor but you can buy the same sensor at Repco as they are garden variety quality Bosch sensors and run one per bank. I purchased my new knock sensor from Bursons auto parts listed for a VR 5lt.(single wire) Also added a fuel pressure sensor to monitor pressure just to make sure at high rpm the pump was keeping up, and is great for when your looking back through the datalogger. The same pressure switch can be used on the oil pressure. I bought 2 new sensors on ebay for $40 delivered. Holley wanted $100 US each. The adjustability is so advanced that you can set individual cylinder fuel and timing. Great to know but without an engine dyno no use me mucking around with that part. But you can also use many other sensors and calibrate them in the program and put an offset figure in so the reading to the processing computer is 100 % correct.

The Holley Terminator uses the same computer and software as mine. The Terminator throttle body assembly looks very close to the old 4150 style carbys and you have to know what your looking for to tell its actually EFI. Most air filters will fit straight on top. If the filter assembly fits your old Holley carby it will also go straight on the EFI throttle body. I used the same air filter on mine. The Snipper system has the computer mounted inside the throttle body like the Fi-tech which reduces a few wires and connections but reduces some of the add on features as well and less adjustable parameters, I haven't used the Snipper system and for basic EFI system it will probably work well and still can control timing if needed. The Snipper throttle body assembly looks a bit like a UFO to me, and if you want the look of the old Holley carby sitting on top then the Terminator would be a better choice. And I like the fact that the HP system has so much future proof if you ever want to upgrade things later. For instance if you have the HP or terminator computer and you decide to change direction later you only need to buy or make your own harness and you can control a LS engine with fly by wire throttle and control the electronically controlled transmission even traction control. But the HP system is almost double the price so you have to decide what is important to you and what you want to have total control over.

You can go on the Holley website and down load the HP/Terminator software for free and play with it and see what you can do with it. This might help making your decision. This is what I did and got used to the program which turned out to be very easy to use for a first timer, which can suit every cars individual needs with total adjustability.

The photo below is one of the many screen you can choose to monitor the system in real time and you can set any parameter you want on any on of the screen gauges even while the engine is running. I opened this screen when I was installing the system to ensure I had every thing right before I installed the computer behind the dash. I haven't set up limit parameters yet but I intend on setting the warning system. You can set a warning limits to set a yellow light on the dash if something is getting higher or lower than normal, than a red light if a parameter passes your set maximum limits.

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You can order a small hand held controller with any Holley system and leave it connected in the car but now I am getting older and things are getting harder to read small screens I prefer to use my note book and the larger electronic dash as pictured.

[HQ Freek]

I recently purchased a Holley Sniper after much deliberation. I would have gone the Holley terminator stealth if I had my way but they are double the price. With a half decent fuel system to feed it, things add up quickly. Im looking forward to the driveabilty and other advantages of EFI though. It’s been a dream of mine for years. The technology has finally become affordable.

[rallyvan]

Thanks for the feedback Axistr. The engine would be pretty much stock 308. I hadn't seen the Holley Terminator Stealth to date but I think it would suit the look I am going for. Have you had any issues with the system loosing it's "learnt" parameters as a result of battery being disconnected or low battery voltage because the car has sat for extended periods?

[axistr]

Thanks for the feedback Axistr. The engine would be pretty much stock 308. I hadn't seen the Holley Terminator Stealth to date but I think it would suit the look I am going for. Have you had any issues with the system loosing it's "learnt" parameters as a result of battery being disconnected or low battery voltage because the car has sat for extended periods?

Hi ralleyvan, every time I finish using the car the first thing I do is disconnect the battery before putting the cover back on. I had the fuel learn on at 100% for the first 5 hours of initial driving to set the auto tune fuel table then saved it to my base fuel map on my note book just in case I ever lost a tune but never have. I have now turned it back to 60% learn and every so often I hook up the notebook and have a look and see how much learning has been done. So no never had any issues at all with disconnection the battery.


I decided to hook the notebook up a few weeks ago after my son and his girlfriend decided to take the hatch for a cruise. When I looked at the learn table I noticed that it has set fuel blocks right up to 6,700 rpm. So he was busted red handed. I have since reduced the spark cut to 5,850 rpm and before he drives it next time I am going to set it at 3,800 rpm and not tell him. That's going to wipe the smile of his face next time he takes it out. I can set many different tunes to suit fuel grades or drivers and only takes me around 2 minutes to download one.

Leaving the auto tune on around 60% lets the engine correct things slightly for the changes in atmospheric conditions. But basically the auto tune set up the fuel table very close in the first half hour of driving.


DSC_0009_6[2405].JPG
This is how my fuel table looks and the different colours indicate the amount of change. - figures is fuel removed and + numbers fuel added. This table was shortly after saving it to the base map and I took it for a 2 hour easy drive.