Holden front end mods

[wbute]

i remember getting a roadworthy at govt dept and the car had cut springs (purchased this way believe it or not). bloke jacked car and wobbled wheels to check bearings, steering etc. his hand never went anywhere near the springs. passed first pop.

it's not legit and i don't think anyone would argue that. it gets a great result, you can't argue that

I will make this point, Big Rob no offence was meant at your method. It does look better with the lower ride height.

Second point, my comment was aimed more at the way that the method was being passed off as a legit method by the following comments. This site really needs to promote better methods of improvement in my opinion. I mean no one jumps on here and promotes bog for rust repair or swapping tags do they.

Someone's mate who reckons that cutting coils is no dramas is wrong. Pure and simple. You can not take a percentage of a spring away and then expect it to carry the same load. a lowered coil has (or should) have a higher spring rate to compensate it's lower ride height.
The cut coil is going to effect the braking and handling just as much as a buggered shock, probably more. I am sorry to refer back to dirt bikes but if you ride a bike set up with correct sag and spring rate plus damping settings you will go faster safely. They are chalk and cheese to an incorrectly set up bike. It's the same with a car. By modifying the spring length you are compromising the suspension travel. It is now riding in the lower part of the springs capacity permanently.
Let's say there are about ten coils in the spring, you cut one and a half off, you have taken 12 and a half percent of the spring away. You have not also taken 12 and a half percent of the cars weight over the front wheels away at the same time.

This is no different to a conversation you would have at the pub over this subject so I am I no way having a go at anyone, just saying what I believe is correct.

[Gm nut]

There is nothing wrong with chopping coils, as long as the spring is not cut too short and it drops out when the suspension is at full extension.
Chopping out a coil will increase the load required to compress the spring, which will improve handling.... Reduced ride height and higher load rating on spring!

[Taily]

Chopping out a coil will increase the load required to compress the spring, which will improve handling.... Reduced ride height and higher load rating on spring!

What you've written is only true on cutting variable rate springs, not common variety standard installed HQ-WB springs which do not taper in wire thickness. Back in the 70's and 80's both cutting or oxy lowering springs was all the rage (we've all done it) as there wasn't much of an aftermarket industry around until mobs like Lovells and Pedders got their act together. By removing spring material is not making a spring stronger (I'd love to see your reasoning for that!) as it will still compress at the same rate for a given load, it does not make a spring more difficult to compress, it just reduces the full bind travel. In actual fact James has hit on the main issues with it. The odd coil off a spring is neither here nor there, any more and you're asking for trouble. There are much better ways of achieving a lower ride height AND keeping full supension travel, of all of them Rod Hadfield has probably the best idea with his dropped spindles, which also go a long way to correcting the inherent bump steer issue our old busses have.

[Gm nut]

What you've written is only true on cutting variable rate springs, not common variety standard installed HQ-WB springs which do not taper in wire thickness. Back in the 70's and 80's both cutting or oxy lowering springs was all the rage (we've all done it) as there wasn't much of an aftermarket industry around until mobs like Lovells and Pedders got their act together. By removing spring material is not making a spring stronger (I'd love to see your reasoning for that!) as it will still compress at the same rate for a given load, it does not make a spring more difficult to compress, it just reduces the full bind travel. In actual fact James has hit on the main issues with it. The odd coil off a spring is neither here nor there, any more and you're asking for trouble. There are much better ways of achieving a lower ride height AND keeping full supension travel, of all of them Rod Hadfield has probably the best idea with his dropped spindles, which also go a long way to correcting the inherent bump steer issue our old busses have.

U must be the mechanical engineer then..... And my time was wasted?

Sorry being sarcastic ... But what it said previously is 100% accurate ....research it!

[Vombil]

Goatman - this is what i meant. Lowered springs on circa VS commies and later models seem to have tapered wire. They feel soft and seem to compress much easier than a standard vs commy front spring (cut or not).

[ambientgoat]

Question to the Mods, can we chop this section of of the thread into a new thread called "car lowering" or something?

I think it's a very useful debate, however it's now distracting from the intent of the thread which is to show off what is a very nice sandman. Just a thought.

[wbute]

Question to the Mods, can we chop this section of of the thread into a new thread called "car lowering" or something?

I think it's a very useful debate, however it's now distracting from the intent of the thread which is to show off what is a very nice sandman. Just a thought.

I agree. It's in the wrong spot. Sorry to take your thread off topic Big Rob.

[Taily]

Feel free to continue the cut springs conversation here until you're all done. Keep it civil and no personal attacks.

[ambientgoat]

I think WB and I might be biased to standard ride height as I suspect we both travel a great deal on country roads, that clearance makes the journey so much more fun. I ran out of time before van nats and ended up making the journey over on 6cylinder springs with a v8, don't do this the ride and handling were both shot I'm embarrassed I did it, but the thing that made me saddest was not being able to go down all the dirt roads I'm used to.

I'm now running standard height King Springs, Monroe GT Gas Reflex shocks, standard HZ swaybay, also all my bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel bearings, sway bar links etc have all been replaced with less than 10,000kms on them (rubber everything). I'm very happy with the handling. The only thing I'd like to reinstate is the rear sway bar (someone swapped the diff before I owned it so it no longer has the mounts), plus I keep trying to motivate mook to move his heavy duty leafs on to my van.

My main aversion to having cut springs where my experience in a vs wagon that had been dropped with standard struts, that handled like a boat in a rough sea, but I do suspect blown shocks would be to blame. Also I had a mate with a "fully sick" vk commodore where he had to be careful when he jacked the car up the rear springs would fall out, there is no way you can tell me that's safe, I do understand the front of a h series is a different setup.

With the cost of a new set of lowered springs not being that high and people like king springs, lovells etc giving a different spring rate to suit your needs I question the reasoning behind getting out the angle grinder.

[Gm nut]

Hi guys,
This explains how removing one coil will increase spring rate...
http://www.bluecoilspring.com/rate.htm

Let's try an dispell some of those "old mechanic" myths.....one at a time....science rules!