It scares me that even if I replace all the hoses, seals etc, etc, etc..... that there is going to be something I'll forget, or not realise until it fails.
It's also a pain when you have to do it to a number of cars. I currently have 5 cars that would need to be done! Cost!!!!
Vans.... This is the 2nd time round the block, 40 years later! talk about turning back the clock!
Interesting link wb. Methanol is hygroscopic, logically methanol fuels will draw water to stored tank of fuel, sure, probably, perhaps unfavorably, but water in the tank is a very common thing, anything less than a full to the brim tank of any sort of petrol causes condensation.Originally Posted by wbute
Incidently, Diesel is also hygroscopic (just in general discussion of fuel tanks).
Perhaps its a point to consider that maybe E-10 stored in a tank isn't great, (however the regular ULP in my stored kingy with half a tank smells like paint varnish, but she still fires up.) But all fuel tanks gain water, condensation is pretty hard to avoid. I dunno though, if Victoria and NSW are moving to 6% ethanol for ULP anyway theres not much than can be done but to prepare a fuel system for ethanol or pay for the ultra premium (which will still have ethanol it it by the sounds of it anyway). But it's not too drastic, my new opinion (as of talking to Shell this week) is that H series Holdens will drive on what they are fed and owners just need to fix them up as they go along which shouldnt be too bad.
But yeah, probably a good idea to slowly change rubber/composites to E-10/methanol standard if using E-10 (or even ULP) to avoid breakdown situ (such as fuel leak from the seperator box, or rubbergranules in the carby).
Regading E-85 - I dont know, this thread was about E-10. I called Shell, they dont make E-85, perhaps Burmah do?
Last edited by SLR_dave; 30-11-2014 at 07:24 AM.
It isn't Methanol in E10 or E85, it is Metho, almost 100% Ethanol, Called de-natured Ethanol and it used to be a small amount of Methanol in it but not so much today, but it is still hydroscopic.
Yeah you should always leave a fuel tank full or completely empty. However I think the point is ethanol is more hygroscopic than regular fuel and when it seperates it is bad for your engine.
I think by the time you change all the rubber components in your fuel system the old adage "going broke saving money" comes into play.
Most rubbers you could buy since 1987 are Ethanol fuel compatible. The only ones i'd be worried about unless you have all the old stuff sill in the fuel delivery are the fuel pump and the rubber bits in old carbs. Put a kit through the carb and a new kit through the fuel pump and should be fine, but only if driving lots. You don't want Ethanol fuel sitting around for long periods in your tank.
Originally posted by HK1837 It isn't Methanol in E10 or E85, it is Metho, almost 100% Ethanol, Called de-natured Ethanol and it used to be a small amount of Methanol in it but not so much today, but it is still hydroscopic.Originally Posted by wbute Yeah you should always leave a fuel tank full or completely empty. However I think the point is ethanol is more hygroscopic than regular fuel and when it seperates it is bad for your engine.
I think by the time you change all the rubber components in your fuel system the old adage "going broke saving money" comes into play.I reckon this is working really neatly into a nearly finished answer, however, considering the above comments, and the thread, I reckon it would be useful to work out the entirety of all components that will need to be changed for reliable operation on E-10, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Shell informs that there is a mandate for 6% methanol/ or "denatured ethanol" as Byron explains it (above), in Victoria currently, and apparantly will be in NSW shortly anyway. So it's probably a good idea to expect the need to change over to methanol/ethanol capable components at some stage, but I dont reckon its gonna be all that costly.Originally posted by HK 1837 Most rubbers you could buy since 1987 are Ethanol fuel compatible. The only ones i'd be worried about unless you have all the old stuff sill in the fuel delivery are the fuel pump and the rubber bits in old carbs. Put a kit through the carb and a new kit through the fuel pump and should be fine, but only if driving lots. You don't want Ethanol fuel sitting around for long periods in your tank
So I invite corrections of any ommissions I make in the assessment below.
For H series vehicles, I think its firstly the fuel line connectors at the tank including those to the separator (I keep mentioning the separator becuase thats where my HJ wagon sprung a leak on the highway a short few years after using ULP). So thats three fairly short fuel hoses, and the flexible join on the main line to the engine at the tank. (Bit of a pain in the arse to change though.)
Then (on HJ wagon at least and probably sedans) there is a further fuel line join just under the trailing edge of the driver side door. I cant remember if this is the same on vans, and I dont know about the ute, but I dont think that join is there on my HX van, from memory. Then, there is any after factory join that has been made between the fuel pump and the carby, or before the fuel pump in the engine bay (common to have one to add a fuel filter/make carby removal easier), then all fuel pump and carby compnents (as Byron points out, many of these are probably already done). Then also the hose on the engine intake side from the carbon canister, may as well do the one from the tank at the same time. I dont imagine the vac advance lines and connection to the carbon canister would be an issue but I dont know.
All up, thats about 30 - 40 bucks of hose 50 tops if one miscalculates and needs to purchase extra (the orignal clamps should still work and in my opinion, they are better than screw down Tridon style ones, as they dont have any sharp over hanging tails hanging about to rub on other connectors (as long as the old clamp still works and fits the new hose properly). Plus the cost of the carby kit and fuel pump (or fuel pump kit), but most operating vehicles probably already have a post 87 carby rebuild, fuel pumps comming in at anywhere from 70 to 150 bucks these days (the diaphragm on the glass bowl pump is not easy to change, tried it only once in me early 20's mucked it up, never tried since as it was just as cheap to buy a second hand pump). Call it maybe 250-300 bucks all up with new fuel pump, and alot of messing about. But, I wonder, (as I asked earlier in the thread), what have I left out?.... Im asking genuinely, I dont know this science, it's all new to me, it was a good question, I'd like to know the answer too and am happy to be totally contradicted, I cant think of anything else that might need to be changed, perhaps others can.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that changing all the fuel components is something everybody should do, not at all, but I am thinking that if ULP in Victoria at least is 6% methanol/ethanol currently, (perhaps something we could call E-6, lol) and NSW to follow suit, I think over time, upgrades will happen. Could be useful for members to know what needs to be done to the whole system, no point putting a carby kit through if the grot blocking the jet is comming from a perishing section of rubber the owner didnt even know existed somewhere south of the engine bay, etc.
Last edited by SLR_dave; 01-12-2014 at 06:38 AM.
There are also some vapour hoses and a collector up off the tank in vehicles with a canister, plus the hoses on the filler on some body styles (joiner plus breather/overflow).
The additive isn't methanol, it is only ever referred to as Ethanol. The denaturing is so it cannot be consumed, the additive used to be a small amount of methanol and this is where Metho got its name.
And... Always leave the tank full, don't use it in cars that are not often driven and not in engines that have had the compression increased or were high compression to start with. Oh and don't use it to make pre-mix two stroke fuel.
It really is second rate fuel when you look at it.
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