Quick Sandman ID guide reference sheet - Feedback needed

[HZSandman]

I am trying to make sure that all the Sandman Quick ID guide information is correct and that all the details are in the right places for each model.

I think some of the “could be a Sandman” details when combined could also be placed in the “Is a Sandman category”. It would be good to beef up the “Is a Sandman” section for each model if possible.

For example. For HX and HZ models we could add under the heading “Is a Sandman”:

“Has a vehicle code of 8WM80 ute or 8WM70 van combined with a trim code of 18V (Slate Black)”

I am after some feedback from those with more knowledge than myself. Any suggestions will be included in the Quick ID page as well as a new Quick Reference ID sheet similar to the one below which will be a one page PDF link on the same page for people to print out as a reference guide. This printable page will be good advertising for the forum.

All comments appreciated.

Ian

[Blocker]

I've had this document you sent me for a while but not actioned it. Very sorry for my tardiness, once your happy with it I'll post it up on the website so people can download it. Jason has given me some more details info on tyre placards which I updated a little while ago - more info coming.

[Absinth]

Some additions for you Ian.

All models......... is a Sandman if -
1) you have the original production build sheet.... sometimes found under carpet
2) you have the original Vehicle Identification Certificate (sample pictured below)
3) vehicle is in original condition, has all Sandman identifiers, original paint with original Sandman decals (document with lots of pictures before restoration)



HX Sandman
is a Sandman if you have-
18V or 65A trim codes
Metallic paint (according to the GMH paint selection chart) There appears to be exceptions to this rule so vehicle should be in mostly original condition with all Sandman identifiers. (document with lots of pictures before restoration)


HZ Sandman
is a Sandman if you have-
1) 18V, 33C, 11C or 77C trim codes
2) if it is a colour other than- Flamenco Red, Jasmine Yellow, Mojave Beige, Palais White on a November 78 or later built car and has all Sandman identifiers. (There may be exceptions to this paint rule.)

[HZSandman]

Absinth, should the trim code and the metallic paint be combined with the 8WM80 ute or 8WM70 van code to eliminate knigswood models?.

I.e. HX Sandman
is a Sandman if you have 18V or 65A trim codes combined with the 8WM80 ute or 8WM70 van code.

and
is a Sandman if you have Metallic paint combined with the 8WM80 ute or 8WM70 van code.

Bit confused with the HZ part. Should 1) and 2) be combined?

I.e.
is a Sandman if you have 18V, 33C, 11C or 77C trim codes in any colour except Flamenco Red, Jasmine Yellow, Mojave Beige, Palais White on a November 78 or later built car

This would read that if it was Jasmine yellow and slate black interior it is NOT a Sandman???

Or are 1) and 2) independent of each other.

Agree with the original build sheets and Vehicle ID Certificate but pics from the past or an old van showing faded decals will have to go in the "could be a Sandman" section as it would not be definitive enough unless combined with several other id features.

Really appreciate you opinion on this.

[Absinth]

There is no such thing as a HX or HZ Kingswood Sandman so if you have a 8WN HX-HZ van or ute it is definately not a Sandman, paint and trim colours are irelevent.
There is no such thing as a kingswood HQ or HJ p/van. The only Sandman available in Kingswood variant was the HQ and HJ ute. HQ and HJ don't appear to have any Sandman unique trims and metallic paint only applies to the base model 8WM as metallic paint was optional on Kingswood.

HZ is a Sandman if you have 18V, 33C, 11C or 77C trim codes in any colour. 77T is not a Sandman trim code.

Flamenco Red, Jasmine Yellow, Mojave Beige, Palais White on a November 78 or later built car are the only colours base models were available in so if it doesn't have one of the four Sandman unique trims and isn't XX7 or XU3 plated there is no way to prove it is a genuine Sandman.


3) vehicle is in original condition, has all Sandman identifiers, original paint with original Sandman decals (document with lots of pictures before restoration)

The red Belmont HQ ute is a perfect example for this, has all Sandman features and original paint and decals...... pretty hard to dispute it's Sandman heritage unless you are extremely anal. However once it is restored you could easily dispute it, hence why I say photo document it in it's original state before starting a restoration.

[HZSandman]

Sorry, I may not have explained myself.

I'm good on the Kingswoods. None in HX or HZ, only utes in HQ and HJ.

Got it with the colours, good deduction - thanks

What i want to know with the trim is:
Did the kingswoods come with these trim codes in which case I would write: "18V, 33C, 11C or 77C trim code combined with 8WM80 ute or 8WM70 van code".
OR
if these codes were unique to the Sandman and were not available at all on the kingswood then I would be able to write: "18V, 33C, 11C or 77C trim code" and leave it at that

Each point needs to be an independent identifier not a combination of points.

Thanks

[Absinth]

Yes those codes were available on Kingswoods but I don't get the relevence. If you have a HZ Kingswood van or ute it is definately not a Sandman, if it has a 18V, 33C, 11C or 77C trim code it is still a Kingswood so can't be a Sandman. We are identifying Sandmans.....not Kingswoods.

18V, 33C, 11C or 77C trim codes wern't available on standard base models, only with the Sandman option. All HZ Sandmans are base model 8WM so if you have one of those codes on a base model it is a Sandman.

Too much information can become confusing for those new to Sandmans. remember KISS....

HQ and HJ Sandman utes only were available in the both the Belmont 8WM and Kingswood 8WN variant.

HQ-HJ Sandman panelvans and all HX-HZ Sandman's were base model 8WM only.

So.... if you have a HZ the first thing you look at is the model code.... if it is 8WN it is a Kingswood and therefor not a Sandman.... the rest of the tag info is meaningless.

If it is 8WM..... you then check the trim code.... if it is one of those four codes it is definately a Sandman.

Try and set the ID check out as a series of check points starting at the most obvious. This list would will be differnt for each model..

XX7 or XU3 stamped.................... Yes = Sandman
Model 8WM..................................Yes = continue investigation........... No = NOT Sandman unless it is a HQ-HJ ute
Trim code Sandman specific..........Yes = Sandman.............................No = continue investigation for more Sandman identifiers.

[HZSandman]

Great , that's what I thought for the trim codes. I want to put it simply so people can id a ute or van with just one line if possible, then go to the could be part and finally to the it's not a sandman part if necessary.

So under HZ in the "it is a Sandman" section I will put "18V, 33C, 11C or 77C trim code combined with 8WM80 ute or 8WM70 van code".

therefore the total section for HZ will read:

Is a Sandman if;

* XX7 or XU3 stamped on the ADR plate if vehicle was built in Brisbane (look for H1-H4 on Vin Code)
* Original tyre placard number of either 9946866 for XX7 or 92001123 for XU3 (be aware that these can be easily changed)
* 18V, 33C, 11C or 77C trim code combined with 8WM80 ute or 8WM70 van code
* Vehicle is any other colour than Flamenco Red, Jasmine Yellow, Mojave Beige or Palais White on a November 78 or later built car and has a 8WM80 ute or 8WM70 van code
* Has original production build sheet (sometimes found under carpet)
* Has original Vehicle Identification Certificate with Sandman listed next to the model name section
* Is in original, unmolested condition and can be seen to be a Sandman (original decals, etc)

Could be a Sandman if;

* Has a yellow needle GTS dash
* Bucket seats
* Rally rims
* Metallic paint
* Full headlining which can be identified by a welded metal headlining strip above the tailgate door
* Has a reduced GVW (gross vehicle weight) 1950kg for XX7 vans up until December 1977, 2000kg for XX7 vans after January 1977, 1950kg for XX7 utes and 2200kg for XU3 vans and utes
* Has a trim code of 11C, 18V, 33C, 60V, 77C or 77T
* Has door courtesy lights.
* Front air dam
* Has a twin headlight front


Not a Sandman if;

* XX7 or XU3 not stamped on the ADR plate if vehicle was built in Brisbane (look for H1-H4 on Vin Code)
* Has a 6 cylinder engine
* Has a vehicle code of 8WN80 ute or 8WN70 van which indicates Kingswood and therefore not a Sandman
* Has no door courtesy lights
* Is a column shift
* Has a bench seat
* Does not have a full length headlining
* Has a trim code of 19V or 62V
* Tyre placard number of 9946868, 9946869, 92005743 or 9947524

Once I have put it all together I will PV you a copy for final checking.

Ian

[Blocker]

Looking good, its taken time and rework but all of that is really appreciated.

[Absinth]

77T trim code is cloth insert and not a Sandman code...77C only for Sandman

Looking good