Factory painting procedure

[utevanwgn]

Because the inner guards and radiator support are black Im assuming the bonnet guards and nose cones are painted separately and then assembled.
Is this correct.
cheers

[HK1837]

There is no correct answer, all assembly plants did it differently. And it was also different depending upon the body style at some assembly plants eg Pagewood assembling Elizabeth van bodies.

[utevanwgn]

So how did they keep the internal parts from getting too much overspray. Given that a cost effective method would have been used in a factory setting.
Paint shops and folks at home can and doo tape and paper over and over in an attempt to keep things pristine.
I suppose what im asking is how much overspray is acceptable for a concourse restoration point of view.
But if there is no correct answer there is no correct answer.
Cheers

[Big Rob]

Bonnets are obviously done separate as there is paint beneath where the hinges sit.
Most cars (Holdens) I've pulled apart seem to be painted in pieces as the paint is on both surfaces that overlap, but I've got a lot of old (HQ vintage) brochures and books that show cars being painted in one piece on the production line. These may be staged pictures, but I doubt it. I'm pretty sure that they are painted with doors in place, but front guards and nosecone don't seem to be.

Anyone......?

[Innuendo]

Edges and reverse sides are painted before assembly and whole external panel painted after assembly.

[HK1837]

So how did they keep the internal parts from getting too much overspray. Given that a cost effective method would have been used in a factory setting.
Paint shops and folks at home can and doo tape and paper over and over in an attempt to keep things pristine.
I suppose what im asking is how much overspray is acceptable for a concourse restoration point of view.
But if there is no correct answer there is no correct answer.
Cheers

Again that differs between each body plant and each assembly plant. Some hung the guards, bonnet and nosecone on devices that hung the panels on the body and painted them at the same time the body was painted in the body plant. The panels then went off on overhead chain conveyers to take the panels to the assembly plant. Others painted them separately in the assembly plant. All sorts of masking equipment was used. If you pull a total factory paint car apart you will find plenty of overspray. Blacks were more often than not applied after paint like the firewall, plenum etc.

If you are doing a concours resto and the car is judged correctly you'll never win with a perfectly masked and no overspray car. For say a Pagewood assembled HZ van, you'd have to have the front panels a different shade of paint to the rest of the car. When you look closely at factory assembled engines they are painted after they are assembled, there was always red overspary all over the alloy, all bolts were painted in place, gaskets got painted and so did exhaust manifolds, bellhousings and the exposed bit on the front of flex plates that got hit when the sump got paint.

[Taily]

From my Melbourne build ute (3/75 HJ): Firewall/plenum internal area painted black first, the front clip was painted off vehicle (clean cad plated attach bolts except for the two lower rear guard attach bolts), the front doors were painted in-situ (bolts painted and bare metal/no paint between hinge and body).

I do have a couple of pics of original maskings I took as I disassembled mine I can email/PM.

[Big Rob]

Again that differs between each body plant and each assembly plant. Some hung the guards, bonnet and nosecone on devices that hung the panels on the body and painted them at the same time the body was painted in the body plant. The panels then went off on overhead chain conveyers to take the panels to the assembly plant. Others painted them separately in the assembly plant. All sorts of masking equipment was used. If you pull a total factory paint car apart you will find plenty of overspray. Blacks were more often than not applied after paint like the firewall, plenum etc.

If you are doing a concours resto and the car is judged correctly you'll never win with a perfectly masked and no overspray car. For say a Pagewood assembled HZ van, you'd have to have the front panels a different shade of paint to the rest of the car. When you look closely at factory assembled engines they are painted after they are assembled, there was always red overspary all over the alloy, all bolts were painted in place, gaskets got painted and so did exhaust manifolds, bellhousings and the exposed bit on the front of flex plates that got hit when the sump got paint.

Yeah, that sounds like what I've seen. Certainly for engines. It always pissed me off that they were so sloppy with painting engines as far as overspray went, but it was a production line and what more could you expect? It's funny now how I love to see all that originality on a motor that has been sealed all that time.

[Unique Financial Services]

Ok. I'm new here but I have been to many assembly lines and as a kid Dad(rip) took me to Melbourne (fishermans) several times through the late 70's He was with HDT at the time and working under the Boyded Holden banner(a story for another time) Untill VB. The assembly was 4 painters with guns spewing acrylic onto a rolling shell. Acrylic was much cheaper, also much slower. Some cars were painted/repaired 2 & 3 & 4 times. The metallics had no clear as in clear over base, they were gloss off the gun and had a very primitive built in reology system. 4 painters would paint one car at a time and a lot of the time it showed. The black or GMH black as it was called was applied by a separate part of the plant. GMH black was simply all the "slop" paint(left over paint) placed in drums and tinted to black. The tone and gloss of the black was always inconsistent as a result but don't be overly disappointed the variation between the colour of the car itself varried from "batch to batch" to the point where some cars where as an example white on one side and whiter at the front, rear or other side(4 painters) not to mention inconsistent "peel" overall. (I am a Holden person so please don't think I'm putting shit on them) the inner guards and floor pan(GMH black) were painted at a different section of the plant and then assembled to the shell along with other components such as diffs, drive shafts and some suspension components, these components where stamped with a "GMH" stamp the colour of the stamp varried pending what "slop paint" was available however the quality department liked to use red/orange and sometimes yellow or green. If it was stamped it meant quality had checked it and it was good to fit. The paint was applied directly over the etch primer whilst the etch was still wet(wet on wet application) As for motors and overspray on gaskets etc
Etc. They(I believe) would have been motors needing touch ups, like I said they painted these things and repaired these things many many many times prior to trucking to the dealer. Each assembly plant had a repair dept. Not un similar to a smash repair shop. Fixing dents, paint defect's and scratches. The unit was then sent to the dealer(I will elaborate on this some other time) However! The dealer then needed to have the car either prepared for delivery or prepared for display stock, hence the dealer detailed. It was not uncommon for a vehicle to turn up at a dealership and roll off a truck looking very "flat"(lack of gloss) and pitted with stone chips from the transport distance, it was also common for it to have a dent, scratch or both and the dealer would wear the repair, hence the dealer delivery fee( some of the DDF also went back to HDT, another story) The over spray from the fire wall to the transmission tunneling was colour over GMH black, they just "flicked" the colour on down... No chassis yet, they were like a kit car on a huge scale
As an example most "Two toning" was done by the dealer. Untill VB. My Dad took me to a lot of cool places that as a kid I found boring. I wish I could do it over again!

[HK1837]

Some interesting stuff there, would be good to pick your brains on a few points.

The no gloss over metallic. Are you referring to Commodore here? You are correct in saying the only factory two-tone metallic paint (that wasn't joined at a dividing strip) since HT Holden was the VC Shadowtone SL/E's. We've being trying to figure these out for a while now to make sense of how they were done so that the two tone HT metallic made some sense. The use of a non clear over base for at least one of the colours helps to understand how these may have been painted. Back to HT in the two-tone metallics for a second (HT GTS in Monaco Maroon or Verdoro Green with gold metallic stripes or HT Brougham with the metallic silver blow the stainless trim), the cars were dipped in black goo, then they had red-lead electrostatic primer sprayed on, then rubbed, then the colour. For the other colours the satin black was applied in the finishing area, but for these the metallic gold had to go on prior to the clear so the metallic was protected. Survivor cars today show that when hand buffed no colour comes off either the body or the stripes unlike the solid colours. The logistic problem with these is the acrylic used in HT was heat cured, so the car was hot when the paint went on and it was baked afterwards. So when and how did the masking happen for the gold stripes? This we cannot explain, and it also probably explains why it wasn't attemped again until VC. So the availability of a non-clear over base metallic may explain the VC's, we do know the top colour was done first.

The slops black you refer to was only used in some places, and as you say had no refinish code (but it did have a GMH specification - S113). On HQ Sandman for example it was used on the following:

Underside of front fenders and wheelhouse assembly.
Front end frame complete.
Radiator Support panel assembly.
Also used on the chassis an misc parts on the cab-chassis.

There were a few other blacks - 599-00364, used in the plenum, dash panel and front body pillar outer.

And there was 578-04149 used for all body blackouts and stripes that were painted. This is what GTS sedan door frames were painted in.

Pagewood had a small parts painting area (reportedly with a water wall) for painting all the small bits as you describe. This is probably where non-black wheels were painted, and other bits that needed a "better than cr@p" finish was required. Would be cool to know if you saw this in your travels!

The overspray all over engines was how it was, they are all like it. Rough as guts! They wouldn't have done much touching up in engine bays from HJ onwards as these were all sprayed with a clear lacquer to make them "prettier".