so.... what name is going to be used for GM badged cars in Australia

[hainzy]

I wonder will happen to the V8 supercars? Maybe we'll see a return to the good ol days of mustangs and camaros!!??

[Calum]

Totally agree HK Well written, Was at a bloke's place just this morning who is a collector of unique machinery and one thing he has is an Opal sedan that we grew up knowing as a VB Commodore. pitty I didn't have my phone on me to take a pic.

[Dr Terry]

See I think the Holden name should go along with manufacturing here. I get the point that GM executives came here and saw Chevy bowties on all the Commodores and then discounted the arguments that many Australians had exclusive brand loyalty to Holden. Many brands have gone by the wayside, the cessation of manufactoring here should mothball the brand name as well.

Australia had imported Chevys previously and they are brand aware. I thought lots of origiopnal dealers sold Chevys prior to the FX's introduction. Rebadging imported cars and expecting us to believe they are home grown Holden’s is silly. HSV can be another Callaway for cars customsied for our tastes and conditions.

Can’t every current Holden dealer just get a few new signs made and off they go…. Goodby V8 Supercars and hello Nascar!


Mauser

GM-Holden did some marketing surveys a few years ago & found surprisingly, that outside of the car enthusiast crowd, that the name Chevrolet had virtually no brand awareness at all. By comparison, the name Holden was up there with Toyota, Ford, Qantas, McDonalds & Coca Cola. You cannot just buy that size of brand awareness, it is built up over decades.

On this forum, we all know about Chevs as well as the use of their V8s in most forms of motorsport over several decades, but ask the average punter & he will have no idea. Same with Cadillac, most of us remember them from the 50s with their huge fins as luxury barges, but again the average Gen X or Gen Y will know very little about the Cadillac marque.

At the current time Holden sell a whole range of cars from the Spark & Barina to the Cruze, Malibu, Commodore, Trax, Colorado & Captiva etc. & only the Commodore & some Cruze are made here. Even then, many Commodore components are imported & the Cruze almost entirely built from CKD kits. Even the Cruze wagon is fully imported. So in reality, importing Holdens is not new. We have imported Holdens since the Rodeo, Jackaroo, Drover, Barina & Scurry of the 80s.

It is sad that local manufacturing is coming to a close, but IMHO, as long as the VF Commodore replacement is a proper RWD car & not FWD shopping trolley, I don't think it matters where it's built as long as it's built well.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

It wasn't just Chevs, we had GM/GMH dealers selling Pontiac and Buick too as well as Truckpower dealers selling Isuzu, Bedford and Chevrolet. GMH assembled most of these here too.

The Holden car is essentially gone in any case. It died as a passenger car with HZ in 1980 and with WB commercials in 1985. I know it is far more complicated that what you can type in a few words, but essentially in the 90's the Company formally restructured/changed and became HOLDEN rather than GMH, and everything sold by HOLDEN was a Holden rather than GMH selling the Statesman, Holden, Torana, Sunbird etc. The "push" (for want of a better word) to call everything a Holden appears to start in early Commodores and Sunbird as in advertising these were called Holden Commodore and Holden Sunbird and sold alongside the Holden range, Torana range and the Statesman range. So to me a proper "Holden" car is a 48/215 through to a HZ (excluding Statesman and commercials) and a "Holden" commercial is the utes, vans and cab-chassis. Others are GMH Torana, GMH Gemini and GMH Statesman. Others will/may disagree but that is how I see it.

Some newer stuff does bear the Holden name in full, like V2 Holden Monaro and in essence this is a Holden as it isn't a Holden Commodore.

We'll have agree to disagree on that point Byron.

I think that the name Holden as a car model badge, as opposed to a marque, effectively started to disappear in the late 60s.

In 1948 a Holden was just that, a Holden. GM-H was the manufacturer, but the car was a Holden. Then we got the Holden Special & then the Holden Premier, these were just trim upgrades, but all these 3 were still Holdens. In 1967 we got the Torana which was not a Holden, it was a separate smaller model-line, never the less called the Holden Torana. It is at this point the maker was now being referred to as either Holden as well as GM-H.

Things got more confusing in 1968 & then again in 1971, with the intro of the Belmont, Kingswood, Monaro, Brougham & then the Statesman. Some of these were simply trim variations on the basic (full-sized) Holden, while others were new bodystyles, with the Statesman losing the badge name Holden altogether. While the dropping of the Holden badge off the Statesman clouds the issue completely, all of these cars were made by Holden but really only the Belmont, Kingswood, Premier range could really be known as Holden cars. The Brougham & Monaro was where the line also started to get blurred.

What about the Gemini, it was built by Holden (the company), but I don't think anyone would consider it a 'real' Holden, even though it was badged the Holden Gemini. The name Holden, by this time was clearly the marque. The Commodore completed this scenario.

Even though the company wasn't officially restructured from General Motors Holden to the Holden Sales Company & the Holden Engine Company until the mid-80s, Holden was a marque name well before that time. BTW the company name is currently GM Holden.

I think Vauxhall in the UK is good comparison. The last true Vauxhall was made in the late 70s, since then they have all been rebadged Opels (as well as the occasional Holden). Their cars were sold as Vauxhalls in the UK & Opels elsewhere in Europe. They have done similar marketing surveys to find that they well sell many more cars badged as Vauxhalls than the very same cars fitted with Opel badges.

Dr Terry

[HK1837]

As I said Terry, some will not agree. To me the Holden up to the 70's and a trickle into the 80's was the 48/215 up to HZ (trickle into WB). The rest aren't Holdens, at least not until the deliberate use of the word as you say. It appears quite deliberate when you see HOLDEN Commodore used on late 70's documentation alongside Gemini, Sunbird, Torana, Holden and Statesman. It appears like GMH were deliberately making the transition from the Holden car to the Holden Commodore car whereas otehr stuff stayed as its normal name, despite as you say the apparant inconsistency with HOLDEN badging eg on Gemini whereas Toranas from memory got Lions but not HOLDEN badges.

Monaro is a wierdo alright, it stands aside as an in-between name. Where most Holdens models were named as a Holden followed by luxury level eg Holden Premier the Monaro was a Holden Monaro followed by nothing or GTS or LS or GTS327 or GTS350. I'm not sure if that plenomenon existed all that much outside of Monaro until modern times eg Holden Calais, Holden Calais V etc. Maybe Torana SLR and Torana SLR 5000? I suppose HQ/J Kingswood had a few multi-level names too eg Vacationer, Sandman etc.

[Alien DNA]

I saw recently on TV that FORD MUSTANGS were being looked at for pursuit work by Police States in Australia I imagine that some GM Muscle cars will also get a look in, has their been any whispers of what vehicles Holden plan to import to replace the Commodore , SS etc

I was pulled over the other day by highway patrol....friendly copper and got talking to him after checking out his ride. Asked him what they are going to be using when the commos are phased out because I couldnt see them using Camrys. He said he hadn't heard anything yet but he was interested to see what theyd be using in the near future. He even mentioned the new Stang was the only possibility he could see ......then the SOAB fined me

[Dr Terry]

I was pulled over the other day by highway patrol....friendly copper and got talking to him after checking out his ride. Asked him what they are going to be using when the commos are phased out because I couldnt see them using Camrys. He said he hadn't heard anything yet but he was interested to see what theyd be using in the near future. He even mentioned the new Stang was the only possibility he could see ......then the SOAB fined me

The coppers on the front line don't get much of a say in what cars they will get & won't be told what cars they are, until near the time they actually receive them.

The list of performance RWD cars will be a lot shorter when the Commodore & Falcon cease production, but what about the 300C. Most Govt. tenders are won on price & I'd say that a 4-door 300c V8 would be cheaper than a Mustang. The 4-door Chrysler would be more practical as a cop car to boot.

Dr Terry

[HK1837]

Lexus have some rear drive sedans so I wonder if Toyota might fill the gap here with their version of the same cars.

[Alien DNA]

True that Dr Terry....although the 300C wouldnt be too high in the performance stakes....even though its a hemi, The LS motors have better aftermarket upgrades available. Much more user friendly I guess.
I remember when vic police tried WRX turbos....There was complaints that the cars didnt like being left idling for half the day.

[Alien DNA]

Lexus have some rear drive sedans so I wonder if Toyota might fill the gap here with their version of the same cars.

I dont know about you Byron but if a copper is behind me in a Toyota, its not going to instill fear