Opinions please

[CrustyHK]

Hi guys

I don't know if this is the right spot for this but here goes.

I have a very rusty absinth yellow HX van that's on the list of things to do. It has windows cut in the sides and a sunroof has been cut in. The roof along the gutter rail seems OK, the seam between the top and bottom is very ordinary and the sills and rear quarters are stuffed. Come to think of it the beaver panel is like Swiss cheese too. I have a really clean and practically rust free windowless WB shell sitting in the shed so my question is what would you guys do? If I repair the rusty Sandman it will always be a repaired Sandman and with the seam around the top/bottom rusty I imagine that would be a huge job to fix properly.

My next question is the drivetrain. From the factory it was a 253 4 speed with 3.36 diff. I want to make this into a nice drivable car. I have picked up a complete 308 and a 3.08 diff. Also grabbed a power steering setup. I'll keep the original gear from it but I would like to run a 5 speed. what 5 speed works well and fits nicely without hacking the car up? Can it be set up with a hydraulic clutch rather than the rat trap nightmare it's got now?

Cheers
Peter

[HK1837]

Nothing wrong with building up a WB, but waste of time putting HX plates on it as no matter what you do you'll never disguise it as a HX. Better off selling the HX Sandman to some fool that thinks they can fix it (or to some very talented person with way to much ambition!). Strange to find a HX 4.2 manual with a 3.36 diff, I can only think of one or maybe two i've ever seen.

Supra or Falcon T5 from what I can tell. Use a WB V8 clutch pedal and full cable bellhousing. Or better still an auto, easier and cheaper!

[ambientgoat]

Sell everything, use the funds to get yourself a sandman in better condition. Drive the pants off it.

[CrustyHK]

Bugger. I wasn't contemplating ever getting rid of it .

My mistake Byron it would be a 3.55

[Vombil]

dont bother repairing a rust bucket... it will still be a repaired rust bucket that will rust again

i like the idea of selling both. then all you have to do in exercise patience in looking for a good sandman. not so easy. As HK said a reshell with a WB body would be quite average.

food for thought

[Absinth]

Or, find a good HX body shell to replace the rusty one..... Probably as hard as finding a good mostly rust free Sandman.

I ended up finding a good mostly rust free HJ Sandman van before a good HX body to replace the rusty one on my Absinth yellow HX Sandman.... I just sold the very rusty HX Sandman a week or so ago for $1500 after stripping it of most the good bits as I still hadn't found a good replacement shell.

[CrustyHK]

The funny thing is I've had this one for a few years and they guy had another complete van to go with it . I just wasn't cashed up enough at the time to buy both.
Selling the Sandman's not really an option unless something much better turned up first. I find as soon as something gets sold it never gets replaced and you're forever regretting selling it. Plus even with its rust and dents we still love it.
I'm guessing I'm in the hunt for a shell.
Has anyone here ever replaced a complete van turret? As cruel as it would be to cut up a nice WB shell a decent HX shell may never turn up

[Vombil]

a good body will turn up. its when you want it least or aren't expecting it then one will show up. the problem is that the van you find will probably be too good to wreck for the shell.

OR

you could buy a welder and get started. If a good body shows up in the interim grab it and sell you're body half repaired?

[SLR_dave]

Hi Peter,
You asked for opinions, so, I'm sure there'll be lots that agree and disagree - lol But, without seeing any pictures, if you're sure the yellow HX is genuine Sandman, I'd be looking at it like this;

In terms of the rust, whilst it initially sounds bad, it doesn't sound quite as bad as one of the vans I am doing! (have you got any photos?)

The idea that once a car has had rust in it it will always rust is a popular one, but there's a bit to consider there. If all the rust is properly cut out, and the welding repair properly done, and properly and carefully prepped, and (eg) iron oxide dust isn't allowed to be left in the vehicle whilst this is happening, and a high quality rust proofing is properly applied before paint of course, there is no reason to think the vehicle will rust any faster than a similar rust free example.

I may get hammered here, but I reckon a thing to consider is that all of these cars, (in fact any car) rust free or not, will rust eventually if left exposed to the elements, or even sometimes garaged. So whilst its fair to say if you remove rust from a vehicle the vehicle will rust again eventually, its also fair to say that a non rusty one will rust eventually as well.

Sills and beaver panels aren't usually that bad as rust repairs, the replacement panels are available at affordable (grimace) prices, and getting em welded in (or better still doing it yourself) is achievable at reasonable cost.

In terms of the 3/4 panels, that's more difficult, but also usually pretty do-able, more pricey, but ya know, whats it worth to you as a machine? A number of members on this site have been dealing with issues in repairing those panels. Ive got one van that needs a massive 3/4 section repaired on one side, and a bad one on the other, and big problem with the roof. It was once original Sandman, and my decision was to save it, and it has a while to go yet. And the project has stalled for winter, cause I'm a bit over it atm, but eventually, I know it will get there.

One area of issue you seem to have however are the body seams? It may not look as bad with the paint blasted off it. There is at least one current thread looking at repairs on those body seams on this site.

Regarding that body seam, you might also like to have a look at product called "Metal Blast", it will get right in there and help you clean it up better than you'd expect, there's pictures of how that product works on the thread on 'Rust Bullet' in Paint and Panel.


Regarding the clutch set up, I reckon for the HX, theres no good reason to change to hydraulic, the conversion will butcher the car - something which you seem to be trying to avoid (extra holes in the firewall). It will also always be evident as not original (as its the wrong spec), and it is very hard to get it to look like a factory install anyway.

Its also a lot of mucking about, and you'll probably find you'll need fiddly parts you possibly hadn't considered immediately (from the arrangement at the pedal to the arrangement at the clutch housing) and these parts are not nearly as easy to come by as they were once. Not cheap either! Could be something as simple as one clip ,or bush you realise you re missing, and you'll have people try and charge 25 bucks for it!

The rat trap set up(s) have been criticised yes, and they may look a bit far fetched to some, but, isn't that part of their mechanical intrigue and aesthetic? For the most part, (I think it should be said), they function well, and are pretty reliable - like 15 -20 years reliable till something (might/might not) need to be done to rebuild, make em work again - and not usually too pricey to fix one broken element in the chain (or trap as it were).

If one thinks about a hydraulic clutch generally, there is probably more maintenance (fluid change will be recommended at approx 3 years, slave cylinders eventually leak, and when the master eventually goes it always costs a bit more than you actually expected... just a bit.) So I dunno why the rat traps cop so much grief, -maybe the Ford brigade started it! I reckon they' re a perfectly serviceable unit when you consider the treatment they get and the miles they cover. I mean, how often do you hear anyone suggesting an HX Kingswood is unreliable?!!

In terms of the gearbox, I'm not the expert but Celica five speed used to be the go, I think people do Supra now, but I can say that in terms of (only two) conversions to the the Celica box I've driven, in both, the gear shift was set too far forward for comfortable driving (you had to lean forward to put it into third, first or reverse) and yep the floor was butchered for one of those (don't know about the other) so you need an expert on the right spacer plate. If you want a longer final drive ratio/better economy, you could consider changing the diff ratio instead/or as well?

Seems to me that the yellow HX sounds saveable, it doesn't sound as bad as some others, I like Vombils last post on it may as well, get it started, (cheaply at first) and see how it progresses. I'm not an advocate of compliance plate swapping though, never have been convinced of that, I've always thought repair whats there.

So why not do up the WB, and work on the HX on the side, the sills and beaver (avail from rares - reasonable price), and then for the 3/4s, leave till later, find a donor, or if there's only a small amount of rust in the 3/4s the rares 3/4 panel might cover that too). The 3/4 replacements will turn up eventually if you keep your eye out most likely. In that case, no need to cut any donor van up, and you get 2 vans!

Can you put up any pics of the rusted areas?

[seavan]

Well said SLRdave, there must be allot said about standing back and admiring what you have restored. Not everyone is fortunate enough to find rust free Vans or Utes but Im sure no matter how much it costs to restore one, to the person who did it, priceless!