Opinions please

[HK1837]

If you want the Sandman as it is one, and are intending to spend $ on it (which is the sensible thing to do ie restore something with desirability) then don't contemplate a body swap as you just about need another HX Sandman shell to do it and it needs to be from the same body plant as yours ie Elizabeth or Acacia Ridge. A HX Kingswood van from the same body will just about do the same job but you'll always be able to find the welded up holes in the quarters.

Best bet is sell it and buy a better one. $20k will evaporate fast on body and panel, you'll buy a pretty good HX or HZ Sandman for that.

[micks_sandman]

Sell everything, use the funds to get yourself a sandman in better condition. Drive the pants off it.

That's the way Goat, great concept

[SLR_dave]

Well said SLRdave, there must be allot said about standing back and admiring what you have restored. Not everyone is fortunate enough to find rust free Vans or Utes but Im sure no matter how much it costs to restore one, to the person who did it, priceless!

Yep, agreed, and, it saves another irreplaceable van, its part of our national Heritage. Holden is closing, no doubt bout it atm. One day there will be no more.

If you want the Sandman as it is one, and are intending to spend $ on it (which is the sensible thing to do ie restore something with desirability) then don't contemplate a body swap as you just about need another HX Sandman shell to do it and it needs to be from the same body plant as yours ie Elizabeth or Acacia Ridge. A HX Kingswood van from the same body will just about do the same job but you'll always be able to find the welded up holes in the quarters.

Best bet is sell it and buy a better one. $20k will evaporate fast on body and panel, you'll buy a pretty good HX or HZ Sandman for that.

I dunno bout that, quite so straight up, I'd be looking for just a little bit more precision before I acted on that call. Best advice intended though I'm sure.

I think that the start of the answers on this thread begin with the assumption that the WB shell was to be used as donor shell, (perhaps the consideration was actually just that it be cut up for panels? I don't know, and note - no pics yet!!

Anyway as I mentioned in my post, the description of the rust is not necessarily a 20K repair at all (as I hear it) - sounds more like 6-8 k to me. (depends how you go about it), you get a better job doing it stages, micromanaging it yourself, even if you cant do the panel work.

But sure, I agree that if you just handed the thing over to a shop and say "fix it" you may easy get a bill for 20k +, and you'll never know what really happened at the shop.

But also, what you get buying an original sandman for 20 k will need work anyway, and again, you'll never know whats underneath the paint.

Politely, I'd just add that for those who own a really good Sandman, it must be pretty easy to forget how hard they are to come by, and just as easy to suggest that one that has panel repairs will never be equivalent, and that the repairs will always be evident (perhaps they will or wont,....) - It depends who's looking, sometimes you'd have to look pretty hard. The car however would still be a genuine restored item.

There's original Mustangs and restored Mustangs, and completely original Mustangs in equivalent condition will always be worth more than a restored Mustang... but who has one of those?

As long as the history of the repair recorded, or evident, it's still an evident Sandman at least. And, also, you'd know what you have, (which you might not, buying one off ebay).

C'mon guys, I reckon its pretty hefty advice to suggest scrapping/selling without first seeing even pics of the car! The rust might not even be that bad!

So, I'm gonna question that 20k would necessarily evaporate... (Scuse me Byron, but I just felt I should question that).

[Vombil]

some good point Dave. it is such a personal decision. really the advice from me is to trade up at best. close second is a body swap and third would be repair. im not an advocate of swapping bodies as i like things all original but I dont like repaired rusty as I've never seen it done right...ever. There are some places you just wont get to the backside of which means oxidization and further rust after an $$ paint job :(

you need to consider the economics of it. even if you do it in your spare time... what else could you be doing??? Driving the wheels off one that you'd completed a year or more eariler!

[HK1837]

Dave I was simply taking the OP's word as to the condition:

I have a very rusty absinth yellow HX van that's on the list of things to do. It has windows cut in the sides and a sunroof has been cut in. The roof along the gutter rail seems OK, the seam between the top and bottom is very ordinary and the sills and rear quarters are stuffed. Come to think of it the beaver panel is like Swiss cheese too. I have a really clean and practically rust free windowless WB shell sitting in the shed so my question is what would you guys do? If I repair the rusty Sandman it will always be a repaired Sandman and with the seam around the top/bottom rusty I imagine that would be a huge job to fix properly.

If I was to describe a car in that detail, to me the shell is shagged. And there is no point spending bulk $ and/or time on a car that has had a body swap. You can never advertise it for sale as an original Sandman given the recent court case precedents set with the rebodied GT, and as soon as you fess up it has had a body swap you can halve the value. Some people will not care, but the best return will always come from a car with reasonable provenance. For those that think with blinkers on, I think it is extremely foolish for anyone to take the attitude "i'll never sell it", you should always keep in mind what you are spending hard earned $ on, and knowingly pouring wads of $ into a rebodied collectable car is to me a big folly. Nothing wrong with having one if you pick it up cheap and limit your spend on it.
Hence my suggestion to sell it as their are people out their that pay stupid $ for rust buckets. Sandmans aren't rare, like GTR's and SLR's and GTS sedans there were thousands made and plenty are still around. You can pick up quality Sandmans for $20k, but you usually only ever see them advertised once someone out for a buck $ finds them and trys to onsell them for an easy $5-$10k profit.

I totally agree that you can limit your rust repair expenses if you do it yourself, but having seen the hours that can go into doing a body up to ready for paint if you have to pay someone for even half that you are going to be up there in $.

[hqhzvans]

Some good advice regarding both sides of the argument , really hard to make a call either way without seeing said van , and what are you wanting at the end of the day are planning on filling in windows and sunroof holes both relatively big job and how terminal is the rust, no point getting half into in and then deciding to pull the pin because you realise you have bitten off more than you can chew or found another van with less work. If your patient you will find another van and to the specifications you want ie:windowless good body etc sometimes we can all be impatient and jump in with out hearts and not listen to what our heads are telling us bus again without seeing pictures it really is hard to make a call. The first van I bought I didn't think was a sandman I just wanted a van it turned out to be a HJ Sandman body but the chassis had been replaced with a HQ at some stage, it also had a sunroof, a lot of rust not terminal but a lot of work had beautiful straight side panels I found my HZ Sandman before I had spend a cent on it and unload the HJ and got my money back, its your call in the end people get only give you their 2c worth.

[Taily]

I totally agree that you can limit your rust repair expenses if you do it yourself, but having seen the hours that can go into doing a body up to ready for paint if you have to pay someone for even half that you are going to be up there in $.

To me therein lies the crux of the whole question. A DIY complete restoration is achieveable even to someone who doesn't neccessarily have the requisite skills as long as they are prepared to get stuck into learning those skills properly and getting out of their comfort zone and having a red hot go at something.

When I started on my ute over three years ago I:

1. Started with something that was already in VGC as it had been completely corrosion proofed when brand new, garaged, maintained and generally well cared for its entire life both before and after I inherited it. I was very lucky to start with something in such good nick.

2. Already had many of the skills needed to do most of the work myself as I completed a trade as a mechanic many years ago. The skills I didn't have I sought advice from those old school people who did and learnt from them while respecting the fact they didn't have to show me the right way of doing things such as dolly work, welding in repair sections and even the remaining body work and paint. I learnt what I could from them and was prepared that if I made a mistake I would strip it down and start again - which I did do a few times I can assure you.

3. Only used the best quality parts/panel steel/welder/bodywork consumables/paint/materials and even tools I could get hold of as I didn't want any one thing being the weak link in the chain. And,

4. Took the time and patience it needed to get the job done right first time - though I will say I should have hired a paint booth rather than build my own one to paint the ute as it would have actually been cheaper to hire one for a day. In fact while you're there grab the painter as well as they can save you more money than they will cost...

So, three (plus) years later (although there was around 12 months in the middle there I was unable to get any time on the ute at all) I now have the old girl finally in paint, albeit its second top coat - as the first one was not quite the right colour, which I thought was not doing the old girl justice so had to rub it back and repaint it the right shade and being pig headed about wanting to do absolutely everything myself - in total I have spent a few hundred bucks less than 5 grand to get here. I am now enjoying doing the fiddly stuff such as repairing/rejuvenating the stainless trims etc and putting it all back together ensuring that everything is either stripped and cleaned, repaired or replaced as I go. But at the end of it I can sit back and say that I did they whole thing myself.

If you're not sure where to start there are many short courses at TAFE colleges around the place to do with bodywork/welding/automotive refinishing and repair work which are designed to give the participant enough knowledge to be able to return a consistant result. Not only that but should the unthinkable happen down the track after it is finished and you are faced with a repair you would already know your own car inside and out and would probably get a repair you'd be happy with completed for reasonable coin.

Another option would be to find an older retired panel guy and come to an agreement to do a bit here and there - they are about if you look and ask and you can learn from him and keep a lid on your own costs a bit. Doing it yourself is one heck of a lot of work and I can certainly see where and why the costs get going and budgets get blown during a full resto. It isn't for the faint hearted but the satisfaction that comes with getting it right are pretty good, especially when you start to see real progress or someone who knows what they are looking at says to you "geeze, that looks pretty good"!

[Vombil]

[QUOTE=Taily;80805]To me therein lies the crux of the whole question. A DIY complete restoration is achieveable even to someone who doesn't neccessarily have the requisite skills as long as they are prepared to get stuck into learning those skills properly and getting out of their comfort zone and having a red hot go at something.

When I started on my ute over three years ago I:

1. Started with something that was already in VGC as it had been completely corrosion proofed when brand new, garaged, maintained and generally well cared for its entire life both before and after I inherited it. I was very lucky to start with something in such good nick.

2. Already had many of the skills needed to do most of the work myself as I completed a trade as a mechanic many years ago. The skills I didn't have I sought advice from those old school people who did and learnt from them while respecting the fact they didn't have to show me the right way of doing things such as dolly work, welding in repair sections and even the remaining body work and paint. I learnt what I could from them and was prepared that if I made a mistake I would strip it down and start again - which I did do a few times I can assure you.

3. Only used the best quality parts/panel steel/welder/bodywork consumables/paint/materials and even tools I could get hold of as I didn't want any one thing being the weak link in the chain. And,

4. Took the time and patience it needed to get the job done right first time - though I will say I should have hired a paint booth rather than build my own one to paint the ute as it would have actually been cheaper to hire one for a day. In fact while you're there grab the painter as well as they can save you more money than they will cost...






So you had a awesome car to start with and ability to do it all yourself and the body alone cost $5K before you've done interior, driveline etc?

[HK1837]

Good real world example Dave. $5k and it was a beaut body to start with and only a ute to perform panel work on. I've seen how much time and effort has gone into the yellow 5litre HK GTS may mate has just finished the body and paint work on. All up it is hundreds of hours work, probably getting nearer to 1000 hours. It is worth it in the end but still a massive investment in commitment and time.

[playwme]

Even if you do all the work yourself, you can't just discount that time as free. You need to give that time a dollar amount to add to the cost of the restoration in case you have to sell.
Say you put 1000hrs into a car, over 3 years. You could have spent a little more in the beginning and bought a better car that you would have been driving those 3 years, and put that 1000hrs of work into your house and yard that will actually add value.
There's plenty of rust free vans around. You just need to be willing to spend the extra $5k at the beginning to save yourself $15k in the end.
Reading the description you've got windows, sunroof, quarters, sill and beaver panel. That's most of the car and just what you can see. There could be more elsewhere. If you're doing it purely for the love of it and have those rust repair skills then go for it, but my general rule is "if you have to ask, then you're not set up to do it". Some will persist but most of these projects end up as an incomplete money pit on eBay in the end.

Edit- after re-reading the post here's what I'd do.
Sell the rusty Sandman. Put that money toward giving the WB a quick coat of paint to make it presentable and then put your driveline in it and drive it. It'll owe you bugger all. In the meantime keep an eye out for a Sandman with a good windowless shell. Keep saving your money and eventually you'll find one that's either had the panel work done or doesn't need much. Then you can either sell the WB as a complete car and put that money into the Sandman or swap your running gear over and sell the WB as a roller.