Fuel filling behind the RHS taillight

[adam perth]

what about doing a flip down number plate like in the HQ HZ statesmans and LH LX toranas? and using a stato / torana tank?

[damienengland]

Thanks SLR Dave.

More good food for thought. Ultimately i have to get this beast licensed so perhaps that is the check and balance for this idea. I could run it past an engineer with my other mods and get an official go/no go on the idea.

Also, the rear tank idea probably wont work, as i'm dropping in a full custom boot that will take up all of this area under the body. Not sure if i sound vague, i've just landed in Glasgow for work and got the usual jet lag issue.

Cheers

[Innuendo]

Why are they being so vigilant?

Well a mobile phone is enough to start an explosion at a petrol station, this has been seen fairly recently in Sydney (a Caltex I think), you dont have to see the spark, the petrol vapour finds it! Same with lead acid batteries, mobile phones are proven ignition sources for explosion.

As far as I know a mobile phone has never been the cause for a fuel fire at any service station. The cause just about always comes back to static electricity. The TV show Mythbusters delved deeply into this on one episode. That's not to say it can't happen, just they couldn't make it happen and couldn't find any proof ever that a mobile phone had been the cause of an ignition.

Here is some reading:
http://www.amta.org.au/pages/Exploding.petrol.stations
http://www.amta.org.au/articles/amta....station.fires
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/cellgas.htm
http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...-gas-fires.htm

There would be a way of venting the tank well away from the fill point. You could very easily cut all power to the taillight via an automated switch as soon as the taillight is opened.
It is very do-able and if it is your want, you can find a way to do safely. It is a good point about the Number Plate light and the fill point on HQ-WB sedans and Toranas. So the issue cannot be that big a problem.

[wbute]

You can't move the venting. You have to open the cap which vents the tank completely.
Speaking of static. Fuel hose has to be to standards to avoid this. I replaced the fuel hose on one of my overhead diesel tanks. The new hose was rated correctly with writing all over it. After a couple of years of use it started to crackle as the diesel ran through it! I had heard of it happening but thought it was a load of crap. But... It isn't. The crackling is static build up in the hose from the fuel running through it.

[wbute]

Nearly all new cars have remote opening fuel doors. They don't seal the doors up though. I suppose you don't want any chance of vapour build up from the fuel cap leaking vapour.

[Dr Terry]

Most factory fuel flaps that are remote control use a cable but several common cars out there use electric devices to release the flap, but they are not electric motors.

EA-EL Fords use a solenoid similar to Commodore boot release & VE Commodore use a door lock type solenoid to unlock the flap.

Dr Terry

[SLR_dave]

More good food for thought.
Not sure if i sound vague, i've just landed in Glasgow for work and got the usual jet lag issue.

No probs Damien, I had wondered if my post would come across a fraction harsh and pouring cold water on your design ideas, so it's good to know you are still formulating!

I hear its been raining in Glasgow? (LOL)

But if you wanted to do the LPG thing, the number plate suggestion isnt a bad one I reckon, but it's not quite as smooth as a concept as your original was.

Keep thinking, it'll come.

[SLR_dave]

You can't move the venting. You have to open the cap which vents the tank completely.

Regarding venting, I think I was considering a different idea than Innuendo and wb, I was actually thinking about the potential for creating a vapour trap between an assumed filler cap mounted inside the rear 1/4 -upper tailight section and the back of the lamp unit, depending on how that is managed. Thus you could get the cap venting into a space, and a vapour trap very close to the rear of where the lamps are. I was musing ... maybe... that space could be vented with a channel downwards inside the rear 1/4 out to under the side wall below the floor. (Dunno bout mud water etc flying up into it from the road/wheel though).

As far as I know a mobile phone has never been the cause for a fuel fire at any service station.

Regarding petrol stations and mobile phones (just quickly)... lol, the majority of the stuff on the net about this seems to me to be opinion pushed by people (including some journalists) who feel that their freedoms/convenience are hampered by not being able to use a mobile at a servo. Agreed there is a heap of stuff out there saying its safe to use mobiles at petrol stations becuase there has never been a proven incident, however, almost all of these articles are quoting each other quoting the original source, which was an ATSB report published in 2005, which looked at 243 fires in petrol stations world wide between 1993 and 2004.

The one in Sydney was after this (about 2007-8) and was (as far as I am aware) confirmed ignited by mobile phone not static.

Here is youtube video in Aug 2006 (the date is on the surveilance tape), a year after the ATSB report was published, which appears to show a fire igniting at a service station after a person on a phone touched a car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gct1BmKNvU0

Politely, the Australian Mobile Telecommunications Agency (AMTA) referred to in links earlier on in this post imaginably has an interest in gaining as much access for phone users as possible, they do seem to be on a bit of a campaign about this. For example; Here is another of their reports where they question an airlines practice regarding protecting its air flight systems!... and then goes on to discuss petrol and automotive fires.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/arti...omobiles_amta/

Now I dunno how many airworthyness engineers work at the AMTA.... but in the meantime heres how some others look at it;

http://engworks.ca/Whitepapers/Cellp...sLocations.pdf
(see conclusion, page 10.)

The MD of Caltex Australia;
http://www.caltex.com.au/LatestNews/....aspx?ID=13151

The RACQ reckons (a while back) that in 10 percent of petrol station fires examined, the source was not determined but that mobiles could not be ruled out.
http://www.racq.com.au/motoring/cars...and_fuel_fires

and the current MSDS for shell premium 95 unleaded (See section 7) also advises to keep mobile phones away.
http://s03.static-shell.com/content/...lpremium95.pdf

But still, I agree there is still some uncertainty about it yes, but less uncertainty than there was in 2005, and the majority of search engines on the internet atm tend to bring up articles which play to a popular idea, but are becomming years out of date.

[chrisp]

Why not. Here's my two bobs worth.

I work for an oil company and we have strict rules about stuff like this.
a, static is usually the problem.
b, mobiles DO have the energy inside them to ignite petrol. The easiest way to get this energy is to drop and break your phone.
If it's in your pocket, or in the car, you dont have the risk.

[Dago]

I was interested to notice the other day that the fuel flap on the Astra locks when the car is locked. I've not noticed before, as the car is usually open with the keys in it or nearby...