Help Needed with 202!!

[buck]

I always used E10 back before everyone had it (from Bogas in Newcastle ares) on my red 202 in my old WB tonner. It used to ping its head off on premium (95) but ran fine on E10 which is also about 95 octane. Running straight ULP it used to get all sorts of cr@p build up on the plugs but with Ethanol fuel it was always clean as a whistle. The denatured Ethanol (basically metho) cleans the combustion chambers, so there is no hot-spot buildup to make it ping.

This is of course back when E10 sold by Bogas was good stuff, sometimes you get cheap rubbish. Although my Cross8 was tuned for 95 or E10 and ran fine on both, developed good power on both, just used a little bit more fuel on E10 but not 10-15c/litre more that you pay for 95. It pinged its guts out on normal ULP. My SR5 Hilux actually runs better and gets better economy on E10 than it does on straight ULP or 95 octane ULP. I tend to buy it from high volume sellers though.

I must be the opposite you, mine will run on after turned off and also ping on heavy accleration on 91 or normal unleaded.
(wasnt super or leaded 96 octane.)
i have seen 3-4 late model engines say from 93 to 2002 pulled apart that have been run on e10 and the valve recession was terrible, also a green tinge on all the back of the valves, maybe its the fuel we get in albury, but everyone i know that has used it has had major problems and engine damage, i wouldnt even run my 2006 commodore on it.

[HK1837]

Could be cr@ppy fuel. De-natured Ethanol has a pretty high octane rating so when mixed as 10% into quality ULP it should be nothing but better. I suspect though that the fuel that gets used sometimes to mix the Ethanol into is rubbish to start with. Plus the signs you see that say "up to 10% Ethanol". Hmmm, when I read that I wonder if sometimes there is any at all, which would mean you are getting a 90-91 Octane fuel if there is only 1% Ethanol as oppposed to 95+ if 10% is present.

[warrenm]

I must be the opposite you, mine will run on after turned off and also ping on heavy accleration on 91 or normal unleaded.
(wasnt super or leaded 96 octane.)
i have seen 3-4 late model engines say from 93 to 2002 pulled apart that have been run on e10 and the valve recession was terrible, also a green tinge on all the back of the valves, maybe its the fuel we get in albury, but everyone i know that has used it has had major problems and engine damage, i wouldnt even run my 2006 commodore on it.

"Super" fuel was 98 octane prior to it being reduced from about 1986 to 96 octane till is phased out.

[Valencia]

Will only run my gtr with a 202 on 98 doesnt run as good with the other fuels

[83 WB_Ute]

Best tip I can give you.
Take it to a mechanic and have them advise and quote.
Diagnostic via web forum is unlikely to be the answer.

I'm with you on this one! I'm quite confused with it, because its a multitude of things all happening at once :/ I fix one, and then another 3 problems surface :(
It doesn't help I have bugger all time to work it out..
I think I'll just take it to a mechanic (my rego fulla) and get him to work it out..

Another possibility is leaking extractor gasket mistaken for lifter noise.

I'm not sure, the gasket was done 4000km ago.. and I checked all the manifold bolts today, and they're tight as they can go..

I think I'm with Innuendo on that one, it sounds like more than one issue to me. First is that the motor wants to 'run on', not a good situ, timing?... possibly, second is she 'rattles'; it does sound like timing and detonation, maybe... but it might be as simple as an inlet manifold leak.... grab hold of the inlet manifold and see if it's loose, sometimes they can do this after miles and miles, and you just assume its the same as when you did it up.

The standard (olds skool) diognostic tool for an engine like this is a vacumn guage, but if you've gotta be travelling in a week or so, and dont have one at hand, a trip to someone like dynatune will be faster and cheaper, as long as they are not gonna charge more than 50 bucks, and know you just want diagnosis.

Yeah, there is just lots of issues going on :/ I'll take it to a mechanic and see what he can find out I won't take it to work, it just gets stack at the back of the workshop and left and then I cop so much shit for it being in a Ford dealership :(

also one thing not mentioned, is fuel quality, a couple of blokes at work are running that shit E10, their cars are rattling there heads off and way down on power, do people not realise that these old cars are designed to run on plus 96 octane. the amount of damage that E10 does to heads,valves, piston and fuel systems is unbelievable. i always run my WB on atleast 95 octane.

I run the old girl on Premium.. Its the only thing that you can get that doesn't have Ethanol in it out this way... :/

[83 WB_Ute]

Cam and lifters always as a set mate and always be sus on an unknown fibre cam drive sprocket.

You're talking about your blue motor aren't you?

Black smoke and running worse? What sort of carby is it (should be a Varijet) and have you checked the basics... inlet manifold and carby tight and not sucking air etc? Black smoke and running rough do seem to point to a carby (might get away with running a kit through it and a real close look at the float and choke mechanisms - they also had a gasket between the throttle body and the body of the carby and/or a bakelite insulator under the carby that gave trouble from time to time sucking air), but that rattle you describe makes me wonder if something in the lubrication system (blocked oil filter or worn out oil pump) isn't right if the lifters are all rattling away together at mid to high rpm. Do you have an oil pressure gauge on it - if so what are you getting at idle/1500/3000rpm?

Those 6's had a couple of plastic vac trees that perished and sucked air and they had a hot idle ported vac system that increased the idle if they got a bit too hot (to increse the fan speed to draw more air through the radiator.

Has anyone showed you how to check for vac leaks using either WD40 (be careful) or water?

I got the oil pressure gauge working, and it comes up like it should (ignition on, engine turned off..) and once the engine is started it slowly moves back, and then keeps going until it hits dead in the red indicator (at idle..) :( :( :/
Won't move off there even when the motors rpm changes :/

I also took the rocker cover off and started her up and checked the bolts on the rockers and they were all as tight as they would go and there was no play in any of the rockers or pushrods...

So now that leads me to think its more of an internal problem, just what the problem is, I dunno. But five will get me ten that its got something to do with the low oil pressure..

Checked for vacuum leaks, none showed up at all. I even second checked that all the hoses were hooked up right just to make sure..

So where does that leave me? Any more ideas??

[Taily]

Ten to a pound you've got the wrong oil pressure sender unit in it (sounds exactly like the way an oil pressure switch behaves). The fact the gauge rises off the stop with IGN on and engine not running means that the switch (which is different to a sender unit - as they go towards open circuit with a lower oil pressure) would be illuminating a lamp when the oil pressure is low - if you get where I'm coming from. You'll need to visit a parts supplier as ask for a sender unit to suit the GTS dash model you've fitted.

When you ran the engine with the rocker cover off, was there much oil exiting the top of the pushrods into the cupped area of the rockers? There should be enough getting up there to make a small to medium sized mess....

There would be minimal play evident around the rockers as most (not all) of them would be under compression at any one time, dependant on where the engine stopped.

Innuendo called it - If you're still doing your apprenticeship (that was you wasn't it?) at the Ford dealer I'd suggest running it in to work and getting one of the older mechanics to have a look/listen as it is probably one of those noises you'd need to hear to know what it is or where it is coming from. Any number of us could rabbit on here all day about one thing or another but without actually hearing it in person we're all guessing.

[83 WB_Ute]

Ten to a pound you've got the wrong oil pressure sender unit in it (sounds exactly like the way an oil pressure switch behaves). The fact the gauge rises off the stop with IGN on and engine not running means that the switch (which is different to a sender unit - as they go towards open circuit with a lower oil pressure) would be illuminating a lamp when the oil pressure is low - if you get where I'm coming from. You'll need to visit a parts supplier as ask for a sender unit to suit the GTS dash model you've fitted.

When you ran the engine with the rocker cover off, was there much oil exiting the top of the pushrods into the cupped area of the rockers? There should be enough getting up there to make a small to medium sized mess....

There would be minimal play evident around the rockers as most (not all) of them would be under compression at any one time, dependant on where the engine stopped.

Innuendo called it - If you're still doing your apprenticeship (that was you wasn't it?) at the Ford dealer I'd suggest running it in to work and getting one of the older mechanics to have a look/listen as it is probably one of those noises you'd need to hear to know what it is or where it is coming from. Any number of us could rabbit on here all day about one thing or another but without actually hearing it in person we're all guessing.

Nup, got the right sender unit.. I went and bought it on friday arvo after work. I've had 2 sender units the 1st was a dud, and the second seems to be working - well atleast more than the last one haha

There wasn't too much oil, but it was there..

Yeah, I may just do that.. I'll probably cop a heap of crap from the fulla's at work for it not running right, and not being able to work it out :/

I'll see how I go and then let you know

[HK1837]

Don't be worried, it is a Ford dealership, and if they like Fords and give you a hard time about having a proper car well that is their problem! Tell them each to their own, that you like Holdens and girls and that you are happy with that - they should stick to their own lifestyle decisions.

If they are mechanics half worth their title they'll be more than happy to help you out, and to see you having a real go yourself. Trouble is the young ones today are used to plugging in a machine that tells them the problem. They rarely ever have to diagnose it themselves.

[Innuendo]

Nup, got the right sender unit.. I went and bought it on friday arvo after work. I've had 2 sender units the 1st was a dud, and the second seems to be working

How much did you pay for this "right" sender unit? It should be a can type (VDO) and probably no less than around $80 trade.