Value of a Sandman or The Never Ending Story

[adam perth]

i have found it common that the basic holden fan didn't realise that they made a sandman ute.

stuff like " i had a sandman van, they never made a sandman ute!"

i think eventually the ute will match the van pricing, but right now utes seem cheaper..to me anyway..

i think the XX7 is important to some buyers, particularly in HQ and Early HJ up to 9/1975.

e.g. HQ XX7 = sandman 100%
verses
HQ Melb build 2 seat, B trim code, paint code and body inspection = possible sandman...

we have seen examples of Brisbane build in 1974, 2 seat, 30 B trim, salamander red L31 M21,......... without the XX7..Mauser / Bryon probably has a few more ,but i have seen a couple here and there. To me this just conforms the resolve of some buyers to MUST HAVE XX7 or XU3.

[GNW1974]

7K and still going on a Ute with a very straight body and okay drive-line - want to know where the value is, go and buy the parts. I have sourced as prudently as possible and it still has cost me plenty. I would hate to think what it would cost if I tried to source new old stock parts.

[adam perth]

Adam pretty much nailed it, except I would have put HJ in front of HZ and i'm not so certain about the more $ for van over ute - there are so many more van sales than utes it is hard to compare! I can't remember the last really good top spec Sandman ute I saw sold. Only time will tell.
I still don't get why people want to pay more for Brisbane XX7 stamped examples. It has never been the case for XW8 and XV4 HQ's.
I think you'll find LE's won't ever break the bank either, a really good Sandman will eclipse them now, there were just too many LE's made that they'll never be super valuable. HQ SS is sort of the same but do have their following. I reckon HQ 350 Holdens and HJ GTS coupes plus 308 Sandmans are the go from the HQ-HZ stables. The jury is still out on the HQ 350 Statesmans, but they could be a good one to keep as well but there were thousands of these made as well.

a restored LE seem to be asking 40 to 60+ grand, i haven't seen one suit resto for under 20.. I put the HZ value infront of HJ Because some HJ's are harder to ID where is HZ is more straight forward. Also the HZ GTS front seems to be more desirable than HJ GTS guards. I quite often get asked,
"i want HZ sandman, do you know where there is one?, never really seen that for HJ. e.g i want a HJ sandman, do you know where there is one"....
HQ on the other hand.....everyone wants HQ sandman! this is just anocdotal conclusions by me BTW...!

7K and still going on a Ute with a very straight body and okay drive-line - want to know where the value is, go and buy the parts. I have sourced as prudently as possible and it still has cost me plenty. I would hate to think what it would cost if I tried to source new old stock parts.

HQ sandman ute??

[GNW1974]

HQ sandman ute??

Don't know, hope so but then I don't mind as it is a labour of love. Has all the right bits ID wise but no proof and sadly broken ownership history. The dealership that used to service it was sold 10 years + ago and all service records not kept.

[hqgts]

Rightly or wrongly, to me anyway, barring finding a van with a documented history, having an XX7 tagged car is the undeniable proof of it being a Genuine sandman... So having the original motor was less important to me.... My HJ is 5/75 so I wanted the real deal.. Not a maybe... Have since sourced an early 75 date coded 308 and whilst not the original engine will still be a nice fit for the van

In my younger days a sandman was an icon of the surf culture and was totally seperate from the van scene.... Its why more than a few sandmans were heavily modified back in the day.... In a van you could store a board, catch some shut eye and play hide the sausage... Try doing that in a ute without getting arrested.... Blockers sells the "sandman - still your fathers worst nightmare" stickers.... Not sure not many dads quake in their boots when a ute turns up for the first date.... But if we were all the same it would be a boring world...

On your question of an XW8.... Of course it doesnt matter where it was built..... It is what it is.... With a sandman, as you know more than anyone, unless it has books or XX7 tags claiming sandman status is not as easy to prove authenticity.... And in the collector car world provenance is everything.... For me when someone says "is it a real sandman" its far easier to pop the bonnet and point to the XX7 tags than to pull out the centre console to show the original welds on a centre console bracket....

[Jeza]

I guess that most people, excluding Sandman and the majority of Holden enthusiasts will immediately picture or assume a van opposed to ute when 'Sandman' is mentioned. Vans are a more prominent visual image for most. Do a google images search on 'Sandman' and look what shows up.

I think that Adam has nailed it the more desirable specifications that draw extra attention and value. Condition, colour - rare or desirable, window/less, drive train combo, model and XX7 plated will influence different buyers as everybody has different preferences. With the identification resources at our fingertips, the Brisbane built 'XX7' plates are less influential in the vast majority of cases. However if you had the choice of two identical vehicles but one from Brisbane and the other not at the same price, you take the the Brisbane built one. I'll split the difference between Adam and Byron and say HJ's and HZ's are equal. Model and colours tend to be driven more so by personal preference, although HQs Are rarer adding to their market value and HXs seem to be less desirable.

There have been a lot of vans around with rather large prices tags lately, they arent selling at their ticketed prices.
However what is expensive today, may not necessarily be expensive tomorrow as I too believe that values will continue to climb. I believe that the mysandman site has considerably attributed to the desire for these vehicles and their increasing market value!

[hx-sandman]

Personally, I think we're in the midst of a Sandman bubble. They've suddenly become popular and to begin with were well priced but the nostalgia factor has kicked in and prices are at a pretty high level for what is basically a commercial vehicle with a sticker kit.

In my limited research it seems Australian classic car fads drive up prices slowly and steadily till they drop suddenly, quite often due to outside factors (economic etc).

The GTHO values have taken a hit, as have HDT's. Watch for Monaro's to dip as the nostalgia buyers get older or the stock exchange tanks.

I think the prices are unsustainable for a non-performance vehicle that was mass produced and production numbers can never be absolutely known

[Taily]

Rightly or wrongly, to me anyway, barring finding a van with a documented history, having an XX7 tagged car is the undeniable proof of it being a Genuine sandman... So having the original motor was less important to me.... My HJ is 5/75 so I wanted the real deal.. Not a maybe... Have since sourced an early 75 date coded 308 and whilst not the original engine will still be a nice fit for the van.

Cool. How close is it to QT...549? Be nice to stumble on the next engine to mine or even a few off...

In my younger days a sandman was an icon of the surf culture and was totally seperate from the van scene.... Its why more than a few sandmans were heavily modified back in the day.... In a van you could store a board, catch some shut eye and play hide the sausage... Try doing that in a ute without getting arrested.... Blockers sells the "sandman - still your fathers worst nightmare" stickers.... Not sure not many dads quake in their boots when a ute turns up for the first date.... But if we were all the same it would be a boring world...

Easy, you just need to keep the tonneau cover peeled back slightly at one corner to allow all that hot air to escape if you were parked too close to a light source at night. Failing that out there in the very dark, ute owners didn't have issues with stilleto heels puncturing hoodlinings or pervs at windows but they did have to explain away the odd dent in the roof or "mark" on the exterior of the rear window. There were certain freedoms ute ownership did have, such as no restriction of headroom affecting dexterity or performance... . Boards of course went in the front (hanging out of one window) and usually left waxx all over the vinyl seats while towels were either hung from the "coffin rails" (if fitted) or chucked under the wetties on the floor or seats to stop the carpet getting wet.

On your question of an XW8.... Of course it doesnt matter where it was built..... It is what it is.... With a sandman, as you know more than anyone, unless it has books or XX7 tags claiming sandman status is not as easy to prove authenticity.... And in the collector car world provenance is everything.... For me when someone says "is it a real sandman" its far easier to pop the bonnet and point to the XX7 tags than to pull out the centre console to show the original welds on a centre console bracket....

Fair points all, but to me it is about keeping hold of something that most who weren't alive then wont understand. You wont find that on a compliance plate. Where is the "like" button for your post?

Regards,

Dave.

[Alien DNA]

Where is the "like" button for your post?

Hey Dave!! Check out the 6 pointed star on the left hand side of the users tool bar! Guess it our version of a 'like' button. Add some rep to hqgts for his stellar effort!!

Cheers

Alien


Now back on topic .....

Can anyone tell me why Sandmans in general were more popular than the Ford and Valiant offerings? Maybe they missed the boat with a trend/brand/lifestyle......or were they just not pleasing on the eye like the Sandmans are!!
This might be the reason theyre increasing in price!!

[HK1837]

Rightly or wrongly, to me anyway, barring finding a van with a documented history, having an XX7 tagged car is the undeniable proof of it being a Genuine sandman... So having the original motor was less important to me.... My HJ is 5/75 so I wanted the real deal.. Not a maybe... Have since sourced an early 75 date coded 308 and whilst not the original engine will still be a nice fit for the van

In my younger days a sandman was an icon of the surf culture and was totally seperate from the van scene.... Its why more than a few sandmans were heavily modified back in the day.... In a van you could store a board, catch some shut eye and play hide the sausage... Try doing that in a ute without getting arrested.... Blockers sells the "sandman - still your fathers worst nightmare" stickers.... Not sure not many dads quake in their boots when a ute turns up for the first date.... But if we were all the same it would be a boring world...

On your question of an XW8.... Of course it doesnt matter where it was built..... It is what it is.... With a sandman, as you know more than anyone, unless it has books or XX7 tags claiming sandman status is not as easy to prove authenticity.... And in the collector car world provenance is everything.... For me when someone says "is it a real sandman" its far easier to pop the bonnet and point to the XX7 tags than to pull out the centre console to show the original welds on a centre console bracket....

All fair enough. Just interested as I have to put together a section of the book about what spawned the Sandman. From my eyes the utes were equal or more inportant to the culture of the day, but it looks like to many others the vans were.

My point about an XW8 should really be about early XV4's and XV2's that aren't from Acacia Ridge. You have to look elsewhere to know it is a GTS or an SS. Like TRIM line, and console mounts on an SS. Similar to a Sandman. Of course with the XW8 most have L30 or MC7 or M41 on the BODY plate, but some don't!

I guess that most people, excluding Sandman and the majority of Holden enthusiasts will immediately picture or assume a van opposed to ute when 'Sandman' is mentioned. Vans are a more prominent visual image for most. Do a google images search on 'Sandman' and look what shows up.

I think that Adam has nailed it the more desirable specifications that draw extra attention and value. Condition, colour - rare or desirable, window/less, drive train combo, model and XX7 plated will influence different buyers as everybody has different preferences. With the identification resources at our fingertips, the Brisbane built 'XX7' plates are less influential in the vast majority of cases. However if you had the choice of two identical vehicles but one from Brisbane and the other not at the same price, you take the the Brisbane built one. I'll split the difference between Adam and Byron and say HJ's and HZ's are equal. Model and colours tend to be driven more so by personal preference, although HQs Are rarer adding to their market value and HXs seem to be less desirable.

There have been a lot of vans around with rather large prices tags lately, they arent selling at their ticketed prices.
However what is expensive today, may not necessarily be expensive tomorrow as I too believe that values will continue to climb. I believe that the mysandman site has considerably attributed to the desire for these vehicles and their increasing market value!

My reason for the HJ over the HZ is it is more "sporty" than "pretty". Plus a HJ 308 is the highest performance Sandman.