V series 'Sandman'

[SMQQTH]

Yes you did. In your very first post at the end of your third sentence.

No I never asked! I know its a panel van! Look at the things. Hard pressed to say it looks like anything else!

And before you say its a ute with a canopy have a look at any panel van holden have ever released... all based off the utility format.

Um, no. Mine was a Kingswood base and a ute at that, but thanks for asking....

Sorry didn't ask that either... yes yes yes they were based off what ever the dealer fitted the Sandman pack to in MOST cases. Before you start saying something along the lines of mine a Brisbane build xu3 xx7 I don't care!

With that comment I was merely making the point that, hey 'Sandmans' where not the top of the line product to start with. They started life as an ordinary ute or van which than coped the holden option at the time called 'Sandman Pack'. With Exceptions...

You asked the question on a BB devoted to an Aussie classic and the result surprises you (and written sooooo well too - try these two next time - "thought process")? Why? Or is it that it was your intention all along to get a rise out of some, which is the more than likely reason you decided to play sciolist in the first place and now have placed a flouncy post having a go at everyone who seems to have a contrary opinion to yours....

Smell the roses mate and be aware that there is the odd person here who could see what you were really trying to do. In the mean time.... Grow-up.

Maybe I was trying to promote the fact Holden have dubbed these as Sandmans and hey maybe a web site called my sandman should recognize these as Sandmans. Maybe give the people that own these modern Sandmans some where to come hang out and contribute to the forums.

Clearly not everyone one likes this idea.

As for growing up... mate think I'm there.

The problem with forums or anything bashed into text on a public place is that things can be taken the wrong way. Clearly you have taken what I have started negatively. When in fact I was trying to make the point that yes they are Sandmans and maybe there is a lot of people out there that have never been shown the proof behind why they are regarded as Sandmans.

It failed as no one wanted a ute with a canopy on it.

Some people did mate and lots more still do or they would not be producing the panel van roof any more.

So if future judge type people want to call a V series ute with a canopy a Sandman then they will also have to call H series utes with canopies panel vans.

No not a panel van unless It one looks like a panel van.

However, who cares what a judge reckons anyway? Cars are restored to be enjoyed by all, if a judge likes it then thats a bonus.

100% agree with you there!


Regards Jon

[wbute]

You need to do more research before you get on your high horse. Go back and check to see if dealers really did fit a sandman pack to whatever commercial vehicle they wanted.
You did ask if people think v series are sandmans. Some do, some don't. That's the response you would have expected?

[Bobcat]

not even close to a sandman van

[SMQQTH]

You need to do more research before you get on your high horse. Go back and check to see if dealers really did fit a sandman pack to whatever commercial vehicle they wanted.
You did ask if people think v series are sandmans. Some do, some don't. That's the response you would have expected?

Research that I have done is based on the sales recipt of a HJ panel van. Belmont based optional chrome tail light surrounds and sandman package.

Now never seen a kingswood sales recipt of a sandman opitioned car. Thou as someone has commented their HX is kingswood based.

Initially I did ask. Than I have gone onto prove that they are with out a doubt Sandmans.
As for you Bobcat read the full tread before making a comment. Hard to disagree with a Holden sales brochure!

Regards Jon

[HK1837]

Since the original question was what do we feel about the Sandman canopied utes i'll stick with my original comments, and below stay with observations and facts.

No I never asked! I know its a panel van! Look at the things. Hard pressed to say it looks like anything else!

And before you say its a ute with a canopy have a look at any panel van holden have ever released... all based off the utility format.

Looks like a panel van. But isn't built by GMH as a panel van. It is a ute with a canopy. The brochure says so. The brochure calls the canopy a Sandman (conversion), not the vehicle it is fitted to. I see this as the same as cutting the roof off a 6cyl 3spd HZ van, and putting a van turret on it and calling it a Sandman!

Sorry didn't ask that either... yes yes yes they were based off what ever the dealer fitted the Sandman pack to in MOST cases. Before you start saying something along the lines of mine a Brisbane build xu3 xx7 I don't care!

Dealers had little to do with Sandmans, they were GMH built in the 4 x assembly plants of the day. The only dealer involvement was to fit the optional stripes on HQ-HJ, or to fit Nasco/GMP&A accessories of the day, which co-incidentally is what HBD is for these and the canopy is a dealer fitted accessory just like HQ-HZ mudflaps or other such accessories. I'm not sure why people still hang their hat on Brisbane built Sandmans being special in some way. HQ GTS or SS owners certainly don't feel that way about their cars built in plants outside of Brisbane!

With that comment I was merely making the point that, hey 'Sandmans' where not the top of the line product to start with. They started life as an ordinary ute or van which than coped the holden option at the time called 'Sandman Pack'. With Exceptions...

True, a Sandman wasn't a top of the line product, but was never intended to be. Just like an SSV ute in modern times isn't - that goes to a Calais as the top of the line Holden or the top of the line Holden Motor Company vehicle the Statesman Caprice.
No Sandman ever started life as a normal ute or van though, except maybe the very first concept vehicle(s) done in styling. They were all started from details on a production broadcast sheet with inventory parts allocated off the rolling schedule intended for each particular vehicle. Some of those parts (called feature changes or component options depending upon what they are) are unique to Sandman that could not be optioned on other utes and vans, and this made the Sandmans unique and distinguishable from early on in production. Examples: console brackets on HQ and HJ, lack of side strip weld-tabs on HJ Kingswood and full length headlining attachment equipment on HX-HZ Holden vans. Yes they started from the same basic body pressings as other cars of the day, but so did A9X, L34, XU1, XV2, XV4, XW8, GTS350 etc. Remember that XX7 (and later XU3) were codes for a special vehicle package, which was an option on a base vehicle. This was how all "sports" GMH product (and other stuff too) of the day was made except for HK-HQ 1837 (GTS327 and GTS350), and the seriesII Brabham HB which were unique models. All of the rest were special vehicle packages on a base vehicle:
Special vehicle package code - base vehicle
XS5 (HB Brabham) - HB S and SL
XV2 (HQ SS) - HQ Belmont
XV4 (HQ GTS sedan) - HQ Kingswood
XW8 (HQ GTS350 sedan) - HQ Kingswood
XU1 - LC and LJ GTR
XU2 - (SLR5000) - LH and LX SL/R
L34 - LH SLR5000
A9X - LX XU2 or SS+L31

There are many others too like B06 (HJ-HZ Ambulance - HJ-HZ tonner and van), XW4 and XY8 (Vacationer) plus many more.

Maybe I was trying to promote the fact Holden have dubbed these as Sandmans and hey maybe a web site called my sandman should recognize these as Sandmans. Maybe give the people that own these modern Sandmans some where to come hang out and contribute to the forums.

Clearly not everyone one likes this idea.

As for growing up... mate think I'm there.

The problem with forums or anything bashed into text on a public place is that things can be taken the wrong way. Clearly you have taken what I have started negatively. When in fact I was trying to make the point that yes they are Sandmans and maybe there is a lot of people out there that have never been shown the proof behind why they are regarded as Sandmans.

Again, Holden never called the vehicle a Sandman, the accessory is called a Sandman and it isn't built by Holden.
Personally I don't have a problem with them, and they look pretty good, but I like the look of the original ute better (but i'm the same for HQ-WB!).
Also more than happy to see people modify, customise etc and bring them to GMH/Holden events. They'll never be classed as (or in shows judged as) a Sandman though. They will always be a ute with an accessory. No different to a ute with a HBD hard tonneau.

Some people did mate and lots more still do or they would not be producing the panel van roof any more.

Good, they look heaps better and have more room than a butt ugly traditional canopy. Whilstever there is a market they'll keep the moulds and make some each year!

[SMQQTH]

So turns out people that have a HBD ute fitted with a HBD canopy. Have a Sandman!

Do you agree HK1837?

[HK1837]

No, because HBD is not part of Holden vehicle manufacturing, it is an accessories division like Nasco. Probably the equivalent of a dealer buying Sandman stripes and fitting them to a non-Sandman ute! What they have is what HBD has called a "Sandman" canopy conversion on a Holden ute. It is not a special vehicle package. The Thunder ute is the closest modern equivalent of a Sandman, and these were made in VY-VZ as well as VE. But they are not a Sandman, they are a Thunder.
All I can say is a VN SS fitted with a HBD HSV 180kW engine isn't a HSV, it is a HBD modified VN SS. I see the ute with the "Sandman" canopy as the same thing. It is a marketing stuff-up. They should have called it a "Panel van conversion", and then maybe added it to a Sandman-like package - oops they did. It is called a Thunder!

[SMQQTH]

You missed it mate. You have said the canopy is called a sandman. Therefor someone that owns a HBD canopy converted ute has a Sandman!

[V6HQUTE]

there not sandmans and never will be, maybe call it a panel van, itll only ever be a commodore with a canopy or commodore panel van, if you said to someone my car is the ve sandman in the car park theyd think your nuts but if you said ve ute with a canopy or ve panel van they might find it, does that mean we all a ve ss ute a sandman too?? in a nut shell its a commodore ute with a canopy they look sweet but there not a sandman, the sandman belongs to hq-hz

[HK1837]

You missed it mate. You have said the canopy is called a sandman. Therefor someone that owns a HBD canopy converted ute has a Sandman!

I didn't say any such thing! I said the HBD brochure calls the canopy a "Sandman" conversion for a ute. Apart from the fact that HBD is not Holden therefore has no weight, it is a Paradox anyway. Sandman means "sports" commercial, not "panel van". Adding a canopy to a ute didn't make it a Sandman, never did. Take a 1971 HQ 173 3spd ute and add a van roof - it isn't a Sandman. It is a "panel van conversion" of a ute.

In the day a lot of non-Sandman vehicles eg V8 4sp BO6's were sold new as Sandmans because dealers "converted" them by adding stripes, as Sandmans were hard to get. They were a dealer modified ute or van, not a Sandman regardless of what original purchase paperwork said. Same deal with this canopy.
Turning this around 180deg, there is an original HJ Sandman ute owned by a person here on this site. It left the assembly plant as an L31 M41 HJ Kingswood XX7. The purchaser (current owner's relative) bought it as he wanted a 308 TH400 for towing but didn't want a Sandman, just a Kingswood. It was modified by the dealer, had GTS guards removed, Kingswood accessory side strips added, blackouts painted over in body colour and stripes not fitted. It was sold as a Kingswood with no mention of Sandman. But it is a Sandman, as that is how GMH built it. The dealer modified it - early HBD!