V series 'Sandman'

[HK1837]

That's fine Byron, everyone can have an opinion.
This doesn't make your opinion the only one that counts though.
Special vehicle package is exactly how I and others see the Sandman Canopy Conversion. Just in a different time and place on the car industry calender.

Your opinion is really no different to those who choose to exclude the modern Monaro from being "real" what ever that means! (not saying you agree with that).

Regards, Smooth

Too true, everyone is (in this country anyway) allowed to have an opinion! You are correct that the way Holden (by design) marketed this canopy calls it a Sandman conversion. However they like many others today appear to be inferring all panel vans are Sandmans - the simple fact of adding a canopy to a ute makes it a panel van, and hence a Sandman. I can see what they are saying, and I get what they are saying. But the original HQ XX7 special vehicle package was actually called 'sports option'. Sandman was always the "sports" variety of the commercial vehicle, which is what the SS or SV6 are today. All HQ-HZ Sandmans are different body-wise to non-Sandmans, and the difference(s) is/were part of the vehicle from the time it was entered into the rolling schedule. Many are ID plated differently. The "Sandman" converted utes were not built differently or special, and you cannot pick them apart from any other ute. So while they may have a tenuous lnk to the Sandman name, they have no other claims to being a Sandman. To me this is no different to a dealer fitting Sandman stuff to a Kingswood and calling it a Sandman - it has stuff on it that came from Holden in a box that says "Sandman" but the vehicle it goes on is not a Sandman.

An HBD accessory though is NOT a special vehicle package, this is beyond doubt or opinion. Special vehicle packages are cars like Sandman, HQ GTS sedan, XU-1 Torana, L34 Torana, A9X Torana, Taxi package, Ambulance package, Vacationer etc. Modern examples are a Thunder ute or 60th anniversary ute or sedan.

[Innuendo]

Yeah, but the MAJOR difference is that a dealer couldn't fit a "Sandman Canopy Conversion". They couldn't buy one and certainly couldn't fit one.
It had to be ordered, documented and fitted and then HBD I.D tagged all under the official Holden banner and carry the full manufacturers new car warranty. You cannot get anymore official. No discrepancies between plants as they were all done at the one location.

You can't place these in the same category. Sure there some argument that they are "different" than the '70's Special Vehicle Package. But this is simply a sign of the times.
In no way have I ever stated that these are to be classed as the same thing or follow the same rules of the original Sandman's of the '70's. They are of a different time. But it still doesn't exclude their uniqueness or the fact Holden themselves named them a Sandman in multiple publications and promotion material.

You pull a statement like "Holden (by design) marketed this canopy calls it a Sandman conversion." as if this is someone other than Holden! Mate, HDB is Holden, same company and carry the same legal obligations, trademarks etc. Same as NASCO is/was Holden. Simply subsidiaries to separate devisions. Just about every company of size in the world does this. In the end though it is still the very same company.
Your reference to "rolling schedule" is really no more than what the car it to built to as far as specifications go. Makes little difference to me how the car get to the final state before dealer delivery. So long as it is all official Holden. You say the Panel Van '70's Sandman's are different in the body. Well so is the V-Series Sandman over a Ute. Modifications are made, parts removed and others added etc.

The uniqueness of these is that you could have a SS Sandman, Thunder Sandman or a Storm Sandman and it was all ordered via Holden and built for you as a personalised official offering.
If ordering a personalised car all done by Holden for the customer doesn't make special, nothing ever will be.

You are simply surmising that Holden called them a Sandman because it took on the panel Van shape and styling and that all people call Holden Panel Vans "Sandman".
Even "if" that was the case. Holden still choose to use "their" trademark to call these Sandman's and the opinions of all and sundry run second to the facts.

This doesn't make them the same as the seventies versions. But it still makes them a Sandman.

Again, Holden designed, Holden named and Holden sold only.
It's got nothing to do with dealers and what shonky stuff they get up to. Everything about these V-Series Sandman conversions is HOLDEN.

Regards, Smooth

[HK1837]

As I said, differing opinions. To me it was a simply ploy to try and sell a product, ie call it a "Sandman conversion". Even if they decided to call it a " panel van conversion", still doesn't make it a panel van. To me (again an opinion) it was a poor marketing decision to cash in on a 70's icon. Doesn't detract from how neat these things are, and i'm glad there are poeple who love them.

[wbute]

I agree 100 percent with the above statement. It was clearly the only way they were aloud to revive a seventies name. See how it goes but we won't really back the idea because we don't want to seen as a company that can't come up with new ideas. You can build a canopy and use the sandman idea for that but we won't actually build a new sandman.
You have to remember that there was no sandman revival when these canopy conversions came out. So they were hardly going to go out all guns blazing on a seventies car that was struggling to pull $3000.

[Innuendo]

Well, I don't own one.

But I'll happily refer to them (HBD Tagged) as V-Series Sandman's and I'm just as happy to call them all a Panel Van as they look and function in pretty much the same way as the originals.
All traditional Holden Panel Vans are simply a roof added to a commercial Ute body. This permanent fix canopy is just the way it was done on the modern version.
Nothing is gained telling people they're not or excluding them when talking Sandman's because of differing points of view. Even the original ('70's icon) was simply a marketing decision to cash in on a craze and sell some product.

Same, same!

Regards, Smooth

[Robbo]

The poll attracted an earth shattering..."43" responses!!

[Innuendo]

It was clearly the only way they were aloud to revive a seventies name.

Not sure what you mean by allowed or (aloud as you wrote) the product name is a trademark of Holden and they can use it whenever and however they like.
It's not mine, yours or anyone else's decision. It may well have been tentative toe dipping when it was released. But my point is this: Holden made a SANDMAN prototype that people loved and requested that they be put into production. Holden did and over a period of 3 years with little to no publicity still managed to sell over 200 units. The prototype was called a Sandman and the exact same canopy mould was used for all the others that followed. Park them side by side = same thing!

Anyway, hopefully I've added some useful information for those who do care and everyone's had their say "again!"

Regards, Smooth

[wbute]

Hmm. You are correct innuendo. Allowed was spelt incorrectly. Well done.
By allowed(using the correct word) I mean the people at GMH who wanted to make the new Sandman. As with every other new concept at Holden they would need to pass by the board so to speak.
Please feel free to correct any other spelling mistakes I have made in the past and in the future.
As for the ute/van theory, you would have to actually say that all the commercials are actually one tonners with either a ute roof and quarters added or a panelvan roof added. They are all one tonners underneath really if you look up inside the rear quarter inspection covers, you will see this.

[playwme]

I reckon both sides of this argument are getting a bit ridiculous. Trying to "prove" one way or another isn't going to achieve squat. It all comes down to how the individual sees it and human nature dictates that being 100% in favour of one option is an extremely rare occurrence.

[Innuendo]

As for the ute/van theory, you would have to actually say that all the commercials are actually one tonners with either a ute roof and quarters added or a panelvan roof added. They are all one tonners underneath really if you look up inside the rear quarter inspection covers, you will see this.

No, not at all. I was referring to all Holden Panel Vans from FJ and this was long before full chassis versions that started quite late at HQ. Also the One Tonner chassis is longer than a Ute/Panel Van.

Regards, Smooth