Muscle Vans

[low75]

Hi.
I was searching for some information on one of my vans,
when I came across this American Muscle Cars web site,
about Australian Muscle Cars, they had a list in alphabetical order,
I was reading down the list, when I read this 1976-1979 xc
falcon/fairmont GS hardtop/sedan/ute/sundowner (302/351)
"wtf"
So I continue on down the list,when I read this,
1974-79 sandman panel van and utility with the 5 litre(308)V8.
These were not originally considered muscle cars. WOW.
I have had some time to think about this and at first,
na, but the more I think about, why not.
What do you's think.

http://musclecarz.blogspot.com/2007/...scle-cars.html

[Bobcat]

Dont get me wrong I love the sandmans. My thoughts are to be a muscle car it should have more than a stock engine in it.

[hainzy]

Its a good list though. For an american site, they certainly seem to have done theoir homework.

[chrisp]

"Stock engine"
very few muscle cars have anything but stock engines.
Especially after 74 (ADR27A).
The SLR 5000 (L31) engine was in everything from a stateman to a one tonner.
I like to think my Sandman (L31) has the same engine as the all conquering A9X.
Different exhaust manifold and no fan, but the engines the same.
Chrisp

[Bobcat]

A9X has a totaly different engine to a stock 308, L31 is 308 not the HP, engine number on them like HT have more HP than a 11QT engines, The SLR 5000 L34 and the A9X are far from stock engines I wish the sandys had more HP

[HK1837]

Huh? Where did you get that from? L34 is far from stock 308, but A9X engines were normal production L31 engines bar the fan, 1 x exhaust manifold and I have heard that the L31 Torana ran a slightly different cam (so did the manual 202 ADR27A Torana by the way). They only have HT engine number prefix to signify that they are from a Torana (H) and a 308 (T). HP 308 engines are just normal early 308 engines from HT, mainly Brougham.

[mrsandman]

L34, different pistons, cam, large valve heads, x con rods, lightened flywheel. a9x stock

[Bobcat]

Im not talking about the dummy A9X bought from your local holden dealer with a sticker on then, im talking about the real thing http://holden.itgo.com/a9x.html like the L34 not stock. As for the HT Torana blocks they where ment to produce about 20 HP more than other 308 motors

[low75]

Hi.
When I first looked at this list, I was trying to workout, what's makes a v8 performance car.
Then I look at, the Ford xc line up and they had every model on their. Ford had fitted a four
barrel carb to 302 and 351 to help with 27a emission and performance, they made these
engines available as options across the model line up. Four barrel carb = performance.
So looking at the Sundowner first, even fitted with the four barrel carb, they are way down
on horsepower compared to the xb fitted with two barrel carb.
xb 351 260bhp(194kw) @ 4600rpm
xc 351 217bhp(162kw) @ 4600rpm
muscle van = no
Sandman van and ute
hq 308 240bhp(179kw) @ 4800rpm
hj 308 240bhp(179kw) @ 4800rpm
hx 308 216bhp(161kw) @ 4800rpm 27a emission
hz 308 216bhp(161kw) @ 4800rpm 27a emission
While the hq and hj have good performance, is this enough.
While looking thru some reference material, I found this, 24 February 1976
the lx Torana was released on to the market.
lx 308 249bhp(186KW) @ 5000rpm now this was only available until July 1976 approx
hj 308 250bhp(186kw) @ 5000rpm now this on a holden panel van brochure issued February 1976 (K180)
This will need to be verified as brochures are not reliable information.
muscle vans and utes = to be confirmed, hj February to June 1976

[HK1837]

Im not talking about the dummy A9X bought from your local holden dealer with a sticker on then, im talking about the real thing http://holden.itgo.com/a9x.html like the L34 not stock. As for the HT Torana blocks they where ment to produce about 20 HP more than other 308 motors

Torana ran the same engine as the Holden. Early LH 5.0L was the same spec engine as the HQ 308. When the HJ was released the compression ratio on the 308 was increased from 9.0:1 to 9.7:1. The LH got the same engine at the same time, and this carried over into the LX (pre HX circa 6/76). This is the 250hp engine low75 is talking about, and was the highest output L31 engine (possibly outdone by the manual 308 VK Police spec engines (V5H I think they were)). One of these engines in a post 10/74 LH-LX SL/R or LX SS is a pretty quick thing, will easily outsprint a post 6/76 LX (incl A9X), and mostly due to gearing will outdo an L34 (most L34 had 14" wheels and 2.78:1 gearing).

--- Updated ---

Hi.
When I first looked at this list, I was trying to workout, what's makes a v8 performance car.
Then I look at, the Ford xc line up and they had every model on their. Ford had fitted a four
barrel carb to 302 and 351 to help with 27a emission and performance, they made these
engines available as options across the model line up. Four barrel carb = performance.
So looking at the Sundowner first, even fitted with the four barrel carb, they are way down
on horsepower compared to the xb fitted with two barrel carb.
xb 351 260bhp(194kw) @ 4600rpm
xc 351 217bhp(162kw) @ 4600rpm
muscle van = no
Sandman van and ute
hq 308 240bhp(179kw) @ 4800rpm
hj 308 240bhp(179kw) @ 4800rpm
hx 308 216bhp(161kw) @ 4800rpm 27a emission
hz 308 216bhp(161kw) @ 4800rpm 27a emission
While the hq and hj have good performance, is this enough.
While looking thru some reference material, I found this, 24 February 1976
the lx Torana was released on to the market.
lx 308 249bhp(186KW) @ 5000rpm now this was only available until July 1976 approx
hj 308 250bhp(186kw) @ 5000rpm now this on a holden panel van brochure issued February 1976 (K180)
This will need to be verified as brochures are not reliable information.
muscle vans and utes = to be confirmed, hj February to June 1976

All HJ get that same engine ie 250hp. Which in essence makes the HJ the most powerful Sandman but it is hardly a muscle car.

What constitutes a muscle car? Many will argue it is something like:

"Performance oriented model of a mid-sized vehicle series with a larger capacity engine installed from the bigger (full size) vehicle series, and the engine is unique to that model".

Not too many GMH vehicles fall into this category, probably only the HK GTS327 and LC XU-1. At a stretch you might include the LH SLR5000 however the 5.0L was also available (albeit limited) in the LH SL. I like the following qualification:

"To be a true muscle car, the vehicle must be 2 door, V8, 4 barrel, 4 speed."

This leaves only one Aussie car: the HK GTS327. You may be able to (on a technicality) squeeze in the A9X as while it was produced the 308 was not available outside A9X in LX Torana, although the existence of LX SLR5000 and SS with optional 308 do probably rule it out. This does not mean that the HK was the highest performance Aussie car, there were plenty of them that left it hanging (late HG GTS350, XW/XY GT-HO phase II/III and E38/49 charger to name a few). But it for its time was a true Aussie Muscle car.

So back to HJ, let's say the quickest Sandman, HJ Holden XX7 utility with 308 and M21. It is 2 door, V8, 4 barrel, 4speed. And having a 3.36 or optional 3.55 diff it would possibly out accelerate an LH SLR5000 (would weigh about the same). But the engine is not unique to the Sandman in HJ, and it doesn't come from a bigger vehicle.

So I wouldn't call it a muscle car. But it'd stick it in the same category as 4 door Holden engined HQ GTS or HJ-HZ GTS.