My mate has a bombed VK 5L that he wants to drop into his HZ kinga (presently a 6cyl cloumn 3 -speed)
In keeping with the column shift he wants to drop the V8 in and put an M15 3 -speed behind it.
So.... firstly is this a good idea in terms of strength of the box, clutch etc and so on?
and secondly, ive found an M15 that he wants me to buy for him. Its bolted to a 253 atm. Is there anyway of idenifying that its actually and M15 for and 8 rather than a 3 speed 6 banger special?
Chris
BQZ
Hmmm, why would you want a 3 speed manual behind a v8? This is one of those cases where "Manuals are more fun to drive" really wouldn't apply. I admit, I haven't driven a v8 with an m15, in fact I don't think I've ever seen one. Most of my experiences driving 6's equipped with an m15 have been less than impressive though. They get you there, but that's about it. If column shift is required just go an auto.
i love driving the 3 on the tree! I reckon its super authentic old skool shit box holden fanfare. Its his late fathers car and i think he's the same. doesn't mind the labor of a jammed linkages!!!Originally Posted by playwme
BQZ
i have had a HT with 253 3 on the tree and i used it to tow a ski boat all the time with no problems and my brother has a chrysler van with a 360 and when he had kids he put a bench seat in it and went 3 on the tree and so far it has been ok but i wouldnt drive it too hard, also wouldnt the 5L from the commy be turbo pattern ?
When you say HZ Kinga I assume you mean sedan, but it could be a wagon, ute or van as there were Kingswoods in all these body shapes.
Easy change. 6cyl 3spd and V8 3spd are identical in almost all ways to look at and in strength. The only ones that differ are HT V8 3spd, these are a close ratio box. Aussie 3spd is the basis of an aussie 4spd but are heaps stronger than an aussie 4spd.
Here is what you need to do:
ENGINE.
Change the sump and pickup to a HQ-WB V8 sump and pickup.
Tips: use new high tensile screws on the pickup as originals will be stretched. Prime the oil pump with grease on the gears. Buy a new one-piece neoprene gasket from Holden
Change the engine mount adapters to HQ-WB type.
Get some HT-WB V8 exhaust manifolds or normal HQ-WB V8 extractors.
Fit a HQ-VK manual flywheel and fit a new clutch (unless it is already a manual then you can use the VK M21's clutch).
Remove the EGR valve and fit a blanking plate (VK manuals had no EGR valve).
Change sender units to suit the HZ dash.
Check how far the HZ's fan will move forward (VK has a longer nose water pump than a HZ). Use smaller spacer if needed.
If the HZ has A/C and/or steer you will have to use the HZ's crankshaft pulley.
The VK's engine harness will basically work with the HZ's body harness, a few tweaks may be required. You'll need to muck around with battery harness though as VK's will go to the wrong side.
GEARBOX.
Either get a V8 3spd or put a V8 3spd input shaft onto the 6cyl box. You'll need the input shaft cover too off a V8 aussie 3spd or 4spd. If you use an early V8 3spd change the side covr over to the one off the 6cyl as you'll need the switch on top gear to work your vacuum advance.
If the car is pre about 7/78 HZ you'll have to chase up a HT-7/78 HZ V8 bellhousing and a HX-7/78 HZ V8 rat-trap.
If the car is a post 7/78 HZ you'll need a 7/78 HZ to VK V8 bellhousing AND a 7/78 HZ - WB V8 clutch pedal.
Get exhaust made.
That is about it.
Other tips:
Change the diff to a HZ V8 sedan, wagon or Statesman diff (Salisbury), and tailshaft.
Change the speedo cable drive gear to suit the new diff ratio.
VK manual pollution stuff is basically the same as a HZ, so most stuff will hook straight up.
Bridge the START and RUN wires on the secondary side of the ignition switch so you always get 12V to the VK's ignition coil.
You'll get away with a taller diff with a 3spd as reverse is a lot lower than on an aussie 4spd
--- Updated ---
No, all VK are Aussie 4spd or trimatic.
Last edited by HK1837; 01-02-2012 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Spelling
I had an hz with a three on the tree.
which i sawpped for a speco 3speed floor shift after the linkages started jamming.
I found the 3 speed much stronger than the 4 speeds as the gears are a lot thicker than the 4 speed when you measure them.
The 3 speed and the 4 speed have the same housing except the 4 speed has to squeeze reverse in the extention housing.
Driver -1981 WB kingswood 253 4 speed
Weekend- AC Cobra replica 302ho(425hp) 4 speed toploader
Project Complete- SLR 5000 LH mock up(next door Neighbors)
never late in a 5.0 litre
Also forgot to mention (explictly anyway):
If the VK is an M21 he can use the whole bellhousing, clutch, clutch fork and throwout bearing IF the HZ is after about 7/78. If it is earlier then he can still use it, BUT will have to track down a late HZ or WB V8 clutch pedal, cable and the bracket that the clutch pedal pivots around (early HZ bracket may be OK, can't remember if the length from the pedal pivot to the back of the bracket is the same). The 3spd will bolt straight up to this once you make it into a V8 box.
You can change the 6cyl box to a V8 box by changing out the input shaft to a V8 one, just need new needle rollers, input shaft bearing, 2 x gaskets and some vaseline. Drain the box of oil. Unbolt the input shaft cover and remove it. Pull off the side cover and support the main shaft. Withdraw the 6cyl input shaft, 3rd gear synchro will come out probably. Collect all 15 x needle rollers (may need an magnet on a stick if they fall in). Put the new bearing on the new input shaft. Put the 15 x new needle rollers into the new input shaft using vaseline (without the fibreglass put in to keep the apprentices out of it!) to keep the needle rollers in place. Put 3rd gear synchro over the inpust shaft. Slide the input shaft into the box, engaging it with the layshaft and sliding the needle rollers over the main shaft, ensuring the syncro engages with the selector. It can be tricky and you have to make sure you don't upset the needle rollers. It may take a few tries. You can slide the selector (2nd/3rd) into second but this locks the layshaft to the main shaft - it makes it easier to get the synchro and 3rd aligned with the selector but it means that once they do align the teeth on the input shaft may clash with the layshaft. It does work, just be patient. Lastly, make sure the new V8 input shaft cover you obtained suits the new input shaft (early ones had a scroll seal, post about 1973 they changed to a neoprene seal. Use a new neoprene seal on the cover.
Note, I may be able to get you a new V8 3spd input shaft and secondhand cover.
Last edited by HK1837; 01-02-2012 at 05:19 PM. Reason: Bloody spelling again!
absolute gold! thanks Byron. You'll an invaluable resource mate
BQZ
@HK1837 Ol mate has been told that its gotta be auto and T350 is preferable over a T400 (apparently T400 are sluggish??)
So in keep with the column shift still, is it just an auto column and gearbox with suitable bell housing etc that he needs?
He wants to know if hes better off buying a wreck (ie he'll need a fair few bits) or just grabbing a few odds n ends from the wrecker
any help would be much appreciated! cheers
BQZ
It'll be cheaper, easier and better if he uses a trimatic. They are better than TH350 and use less power than a TH400. A TH350 or TH400 won't fit behind a VK V8.
What he'll need for column shift operation is:
HX or HZ column shift auto column and shift rod, plus the indicator for the fascia (easier to just get a column shift auto HZ fascia).
HQ-WB RH shift (driver's side shift) V8 trimatic.
253/308 flex plate.
Correct speedo gear for the trimatics drive gear and the car's diff ratio.
Top gear switch for trimatic (if not a HX-WB box) for pollution gear connection.
Transmission fluid lines and cooler. LPG copper tube flared on one end will work, just get an aftermarket cooler.
There will be plugs in the harness to plug into the column switch.
If the VK engine has a trimatic behind it most of the bits he'll need will be on it BUT you'll need a RH shift box. If it is a trimatic the V8 will already have all the pollution equipment on it. If it is a manual it won't have an EGR switch which will be needed if you make it an auto (to comply with HZ ADR's).
As before he should fit a Salisbury diff and V8 tailshaft, but 6cyl 3spd stuff will work with the trimatic. Gearbox crossmember is the same.
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